1.
Here’s a little experiment that you can try at home for yourselves.
Take a friend who absolutely devours modern mainstream detective novels from British, American and even Scandinavian authors, and present them with a small and carefully-picked selection of contemporary Italian novels from same genre. If you pick the right friend, and put together your sample of Italian detective fiction with just the right amount of discerning bias, there’s every chance that you’ll be able to thoroughly disconcert your victim. For no matter how fashionably jaded and morally ambiguous so much of modern English and Swedish language detective novels may be, they’re unlikely to be anything as grim and compromised as a great many of their Italian counterparts are.
In short, the Italian authors very often begin with a simple, taken-for-granted premise; society is utterly corrupt. Not only are the police so, and the state too, but the folks who work the evening shift in the local 24/7 all-in store and your street’s Neighbourhood Watch scheme too. Worse yet, to the less cynically mind, this state of affairs is often assumed to be the natural way of things. It’s not that a few bad eggs have taken over the nation, the town or the local boy scouts troop. The natural and just order hasn’t been disrupted and so it can’t ever be returned to. The detective can’t simply reveal the guilty party to the applause of relieved citizens while knowing that something of a state of moral and legal equilibrium has been restored. In so much of Italian detective fiction, the perpetrator either can’t even be found, or they can’t be brought legitimately to any kind of justice at all. The police don’t care, the law’s impotent and the government’s nothing more than another bunch of crooks keeping the citizens as quiet as possible while continuing their traditional business of fleecing society.
With no good world to return to, and no unsullied mass to appeal to, let alone defend, the Italian detective novel can read as a fundamental, and yet entirely unhysterical, assault upon familiar notions of social justice and human nature. It doesn't simply present a vision of society that's different to the one so often taken for granted elsewhere, so much as shrug its shoulders and laconically insist that all that talk of shining cities on hills and of the people, for the people, by the people, is a rather pathetic way of looking at the world. And as a consequence, the characters who fill the space in these narratives, which to our eyes should be occupied by a flawed and yet still heroic figure, are often so massively compromised themselves that they can seem quite alien and uninspiring. At times, they’re not even players from the other side lending us all a necessary if dishonoured hand, because there are no sides and everyone's hands are conspicuously dirty.
No pure-of-heart guys in even the grubbiest of white hats or dirty windblown capes to entirely save the day. No persecuted and innocent citizenry completely deserving of rescue while nobly suffering oppression. No tiny minority of evil-doers spoiling it for the rest of us. Just an everyday slog through a morass of self-interest, with the slightest gain in the direction of what might naively be called “justice” being achieved only through what to us can appear to be a quite disproportionate, and typically unethical, effort.
Why, if you gain the slightest emotional satisfaction from seeing a comfortably identifiable good bring a dispiriting disruptive element to justice, then the Italian detective novel may do more than just profoundly disappoint you. It may rather upset you too. There's no satisfying sense of perfect closure to be reached here for those looking for a hopeful and morally-reassuring ending, and the reader may well even feel themselves belittled for wanting that to be so. There are detectives who on occasion do competent and even heroic things there, and there are people who really do suffer for their crimes, but the field of play that incorporates these characters is so often a profoundly cynical, if not entirely nihilistic, one.
2.
Similarly, trying to enjoy the majority of 2000 ad's best strips while using the skills and expectations developed over years of reading typical Marvel and DC superhero books can be at best a somewhat disconcerting project. For many of 2000 ad's most outstanding strips are written in opposition to the very idea of the noble, social-minded, self-sacrificing hero. Where the cape'n'chest-insignia sub-genre is based comfortingly on the premise that society is essentially decent, and that many if not most of its citizens will do the right thing if set a rousingly colourful and super-powered example, much of 2000 ad takes it for granted that any such social positivity is in truth quite ridiculous. More alienating yet to the superhero fan, the superheroic narrative's frequent presumption that only the worst and most flawed individuals seriously abuse power is absolutely opposed in the pages of 2000 ad. To many of the very best of the comic's creators, Lord Acton's dictum is law; no-one is above temptation and pretty much everyone is to one degree or another compromised if not actively corrupt.
Similarly, trying to enjoy the majority of 2000 ad's best strips while using the skills and expectations developed over years of reading typical Marvel and DC superhero books can be at best a somewhat disconcerting project. For many of 2000 ad's most outstanding strips are written in opposition to the very idea of the noble, social-minded, self-sacrificing hero. Where the cape'n'chest-insignia sub-genre is based comfortingly on the premise that society is essentially decent, and that many if not most of its citizens will do the right thing if set a rousingly colourful and super-powered example, much of 2000 ad takes it for granted that any such social positivity is in truth quite ridiculous. More alienating yet to the superhero fan, the superheroic narrative's frequent presumption that only the worst and most flawed individuals seriously abuse power is absolutely opposed in the pages of 2000 ad. To many of the very best of the comic's creators, Lord Acton's dictum is law; no-one is above temptation and pretty much everyone is to one degree or another compromised if not actively corrupt.
Or, to put it another way; a relatively small class of bad guys and gals aren't the enemy here; we are. Some of us are consistently far worse than the norm, a few of us are on occasion somewhat better. But the human race and its exceptionally bad habits are the problem as diagnosed. It's a situation which, I'm sure you'll concede, even the most vigorous programme of superhero team-ups and energy-blast-filled punch-ups could do little to allay, and whatever little or great victories the protagonists of 2000 ad achieve, little of lasting social value is achieved, or even appears to be. The heroes can't save us, because, basically, we're the problem.
As a result of this, what might appear to be British analogues of American heroic types in the pages of 2000 ad are mostly nothing of the sort. The comic book's heroes are not a breed apart and they're very, very rarely an entirely noble example to anyone. Judge Dredd, for example, may appear to be a futuristic, Dirty Harry-esque lawman, but he's really a nakedly fascist stormtrooper, and perhaps we might pause there just for a moment in order to take that inarguable fact in. ( ... ) For an awful lot of folks on both of the Atlantic seem to grasp something of this truth where Dredd himself is concerned without being willing, or perhaps able, to really grasp the point. Dredd may wear a splendid uniform, carry a big gun and drive a big bike, and he may often fight criminals and protect helpless citizens. But that doesn't change a slither of the bald and undebatable truth that he's a fascist, of the complete and utter variety.
Obviously, the very existence of a comic strip whose title character is only a prejudice or two short of fully-fledged Nazidom means it's impossible to read Dredd's adventures as anything other than a satire on comicbook heroism. And many of even the most apparently brave and decent of 2000 ad's characters fall considerably short of moral paragon status too. Approach Dredd and his breed with the presumption that their tales are going to provide anything other than a caustic view of humanity matched with a dismissive attitude to heroism, and the text of their adventures will nearly always frustrate and disappoint.
It's not that every lead character in 2000 ad constitutes a satire upon comicbook notions of gallant and world-preserving protagonists, or that every strip mocks the idea that our world's just waiting to be either restored to or transformed into a utopia by the violent removal of a small cadre of criminals and ne'er-do-wells. There are some very fine strips associated with 2000 ad, including the exceptionally popular anti-hero "Nikolai Dante", which, while never complacent about authority and the powers-that-be, might be judged to sit more comfortably with the traditions of the superhero mainstream. But as a working premise, and accepting that I'm somewhat over-exaggerating difference in order to make a point, it's worth reiterating that a great deal of what's outstanding in 2000 ad's back catalogue is designed to mock many of those moral qualities and political preconceptions which the superhero book so often serves to bolster and even celebrate.
3.
In the light of the above, I can't help but suspect that the best place for a dedicated superhero fan to begin would be with a strip from 2000 ad's pages which stars an unambiguously heroic figure who, for all of his apparent otherness, is clearly embarked upon an unarguably necessary and moral mission. In such a way, you can enjoy a narrative which recognisably shares the same type of underlying heroic structure as those you're most familiar with, while experiencing a story which is also very much not a standard-issue adventure. Hence;
Rule 4 Of "How To 2000 ad": Begin With "Nemesis The Warlock" Books 1 and 3
In "Nemesis The Warlock", the universe of the future is falling beneath the rule of the vilest of evil empires ruled by a genocidal race of religious fundamentalists butchering their way through a host of unthreatening and defenceless civilisations. Only the sorcerer Nemesis is able and willing to lead the resistance against this impossibly numerous and powerful enemy that's one part Einsatzgruppen and another the Inquisition.
It's a threat that Superman would immediately respond to, it's a scenario which would inevitably find Captain America taking up his shield and helmet-wings in order to defend the threatened masses of the universe.
But if the contrast between good and evil couldn't be clearer, and if Nemesis himself might well be described as a playful mixture of Dr Strange and Zorro where his role as a protagonist is concerned, everything else about the strip is a reversal of what the neophyte might expect from the above description. For the fascist fundamentalists slaughtering entire planets worth of helpless victims are the clearly recognisable human soldiers of the Earthly empire of Termight, and Nemesis himself is a profoundly alien creature. In essence, we are the worst of all possible opponents in "Nemesis", and the good folks of the tale are everyone but the human beings.
Where the American superhero tradition tends to suggest that Earth is a very special place indeed, and that its people are in so many ways the best hope for a crowded universe in desperate need of our good example and practical skills, "Nemesis The Warlock" takes quite the opposite view. Humanity is worse than a plague here, since even the most terrible of epidemics tends to leave some of its victims alive as it passes. Not so with the death squads of Termight's ruler, the of-course appropriately named Torquemada, which serve a state whose barbarous behaviour reflects those most inconvenient, unpleasant and recurrent truths about human society.
The distance between our heroes and the villains couldn't be clearer in these early Books of "Nemesis", the mission couldn't be more laudable and any less thrilling, the odds more overwhelming, the innocents in any more jeopardy; if only someone could stand up to those oh-so-recognisably savage, rapacious and self-righteous human beings.
4.
Much of the serious and conservative tone to be found in a great many American superhero comics can be associated with their traditional purpose of reassuring the reader, and originally the very young reader, that social disorder can be at the very least challenged, and, at best, defeated entirely. The American superhero book reassures, it stands for particularly conformist values, it assumes that most folks are potentially part of the solution rather than contributers to the problem, and it's founded on the premise that social harmony can not only be achieved, but that such is inevitably a very good thing.
Mr Mills and Mr O'Neill were having none of that with "Nemesis". To them, conformity is a sign of the tyrant's fist, reassurance is the opiate of the people, and political peace of mind is a delusion to be scornfully mocked rather than celebrated. Perhaps most disturbing of all, there's the clear implication that Torquemada's reign hasn't entirely corrupted human nature so much as it's allowed what's constant and appalling in our thoughts and behaviour to come once again to the fore. This isn't a narrative about how a few bad eggs have ruined society for everyone else, although there's absolutely no doubt that Termight's state and its ruler have made a consistently dangerous species into an actively deadly one. And so, the presence of the forces of disorder in "Nemesis" doesn't imply that there is any form of naturally ordered and just society to return to. Even the Warlock's own alien kinship network is riven by exceptionally human-like in-fighting, by murderously jealous lovers and manipulative, lying relatives, meaning that the reader who's used to straight-forward moral solutions being played out in their comicbook tales may find themselves worryingly discomforted here. Even the victories of our hero don't provide us with the sense that right has been in any fashion restored to the universe. After all, just to remove one element of oppression doesn't mean that any kind of state of justice has, or indeed could have, been established.
Faced with such a playfully absurd and morally bleak, if undeniably realistic, sub-text, the new-to-2000 ad reader is going to have to make the decision about whether to laugh along with Mr Mills and Mr O'Neill at the worst of the behaviour of their fellow men and women or not. And if you can't run with that satirical purpose, then you're probably going to stay excluded from much of the best of 2000 ad;
Rule 5 of "How To 2000 ad": Human Being's Refusal To Accept The Sad Truth About Themselves While Persecuting Others Is As Gut-Bustingly Funny As It Is Heartbreakingly Tragic
I do realise that the comic-strip I've outlined above sounds as if it might be, shall we say, a touch depressing and a smidgen worthy. But in the hands of Mr Mills and Mr O'Neill, nothing could further from the truth. "Nemesis" is often brutally and laugh-out-loud funny, or, at least, it is if you can accept the rather historically valid premise that human societies have a tendency to do the most terrible things in the name of the most exalted of poppycock. Even in the fine details of the text, there's the blackest and sharpest of humour on show, as might be noted in the comedy of the torture scene below, which, were it to be recreated as a cartoon, would surely need to be voiced by the survivors of the Monty Python team;
Even at its most bleak, and there are scenes which are both shiversome and even upsetting in particularly Book 1 of "Nemesis", there's a fundamental sense of glee driving the strip, a joy on the part of the creators that they can be making such unconventionally barbed and outrageous statements about the human condition in the context of a weekly adventure strip, and in such an obviously successful manner too. Creating Nemesis must have been, for all the undoubted hard work involved, incredibly good and satisfying fun. Mr Mills scripts sidestep his oft-prevailing tendency to loose the discipline of his storytelling, remaining focused on the precise progression of the plot while retaining a narrow rather than a scattershot moral purpose. In doing so, the first and third books of "Nemesis The Warlock" serve as the very best of his work, as bleakly hilarious and death-trap-escaping thrilling as they are thought-provoking and decent-hearted. And in the deliberate and disturbing perversity of Mr O'Neill's beautifully paced, innovative and crystal-clear story-telling, Mr Mills found for me his most suitable and successful conspirator. It's in these pages that the most convincing explanation for the Comics Code Authority's reputed decision to declare Mr O'Neiil's very style, regardless of its content, unacceptable can be found. So much of what he shows us of this future world, for example, evokes medieval grotesqueries and medical sketches of syphilitic victims, and his art as a whole might be mistaken by a conservative frame of mind for an expression of a profoundly corrupt sensibility if his images weren't so precisely put to use in service of Mr Mill's story. There's no indulgence here, no attempt to upset for the sake of upsetting beyond the confines of the stories at hand, although there's no disputing that much of what we're shown is apparently askew and often simply disturbing. Mr O'Neill's work is precisely calibrated in its discipline and excess to express the moral sickness of the society he's helping to describe, and in doing so, it's often both horrific and hilarious in the very same panel.
Regardless of how Saturday-morning pictures the main thrust of the plot might be, this is the most challengingly and coruscating of comicbook assaults upon the delusions of the morally occluded; racism, sanctimonious ignorance, imperialism, self-interest and plain old-fashioned religious bigotry are all mercilessly and broadly skewered, and then skewered several times more in swift succession too. Perhaps, as a consequence, the reader might care to warm up for "Nemesis The Warlock" with the DVD of "Life Of Brian" or "Idiocracy", with an hour in a comfy chair reading "A Modest Proposal" or "Skin Tight", or perhaps listening to the likes of "Sail Away" or "Springtime For Hitler".
In "Nemesis The Warlock", human beings are as a race so irredeemable and so pathetic that the only option for the beleaguered alien races is to wipe them from the stars unless they can force the bigots to just go home. This is, even on the level of its basic premise, a grimly amusing idea, as well as a depressingly plausible one.
5.
It's not my intention, as we discussed before I started these pieces, to provide any full-blown reviews of the strips that I'll recommend in these "How To 2000 ad" pieces. There are plenty of them to be found on the net, and there's little point in detailed pocket summaries when they're so available elsewhere. Instead, all I'm concerned about, as we agreed, is to suggest where to start reading the comic's back catalogue and how to begin that process. To my mind, and I readily accept that I'm probably way off-beam, the problems that an awful lot of newcomers have with 2000 ad is one part practical - what are the rules about reading this stuff? - and one part ethical - what is the point of this?. For if these strips feel different, then it's because they are, and if they can come across as strangely dissatisfying, it's often because they're not setting out to make you feel any better about the world at all.
It's exceptionally fierce and fine work, although, as always, you really might want to tread with a little care at first. The form and content of these Books are, as we've of course discussed, influenced heavily by 2000 ad's chapter-based, weekly-published schedule and by the tastes of the comic's original audience. They read differently. Furthermore, the comparatively unrestrained and joyful onslaught against hypocrisy and exploitation that's woven through just about every single panel of Mr Mills and Mr O'Neill's work means that it's a comic-strip which might pose a few challenges to the unwary reader more used to even the more conditional takes on truth, justice and that American way.
But then, I love the fact that the first and third books of "Nemesis The Warlock" bite every bit as much as they entertain.
"How To 2000 ad " will return next week with another recommendation. Books One and Three of "Nemesis The Warlock" can be found in the first volume of "The Complete Nemesis". The other Books and volumes contain much that's worth your attention, but the Beginner's Guide will reserve its recommendations for the work which the Bluffer thinks is, in the words of Mr John Lennon, "the toppermost of the poppermost".
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Nemesis the Warlock is what drew me into reading 2000ad in high school. With excellent Kev O'Neill and Bryan Talbot art too, it should be a good place for our American brethren to get on-board.
ReplyDeleteHello j:- You're absolutely right to name-check Mr Talbot, and there's a host of other really fine artists who contributed to Nemesis over the years. I focused on Books 1 and 3 because they seemed to me to be of a piece, as well as being, of course, so very good. But the reader who enjoys 1 and 3 has a great deal in front of them to investigate.
ReplyDeleteOnce they've finished the rest of the list, of course :)
You are correct in that as I believe book 2 was written to fill in a gap as Kev O'Neill was missing his deadlines.
ReplyDeleteHi Colin! Skipping over Book 2 struck me as an odd choice, but after I pulled the books off the shelf and looked at them, I could see the logic. All that business with Thoth does drag on a while, and you still get lots of vintage John Hicklenton craziness in the last volume.
ReplyDeleteWhat's more, Book 3 starts right off with Purity's dawning realization that Nemesis is just as cracked in his own way as Torquemada is in his. For all that patented Mills-ian misanthropy, it's actually this human character who ends up being the moral center, although perhaps that makes her a bit boring by comparison.
Anyways, a lovely first pick for the Prog-Of-The-Month Club! Very curious to see what's next. I guess, since you've just spotlighted a Mills story, my beloved Ro-Busters may have a wait a while for its own turn. :-)
I think that... inversion of expectations is an important one both here and in other works by Mills. Nemesis looks like The Devil (all cloven-hooves and pointy head) and is clearly an agent of unrule against the rigid order of mankind. We see it emerging (initially?) in ABC Warriors, where Deadlock is a robot and high priest of Chaos and the enemy are human institutions (and eventually Torquemada again). It is possibly most explicit in Finn (a spin-off from Third World War, which paints no one in a good light), in which our "hero" dresses in black and a horned helmet and uses magic to fight the forces of light, who it turns out are "illuminated" Ickean reptile/fish monstrosities. It is either a deeply-held belief of Pat's (a Catholic upbringing will undermine your belief in institutions, as I know all too well myself ;) ) or he has found it a very useful vein to mine for inspiration (one should be wary of assuming an interest in a topic means a belief in one). This kind of inversion means that when Mills actually engages with the American superhero he spawns Marshal Law.
ReplyDeleteIn relation to American superheroes and their conformist outlook, you might be interested in digging out John Shelton Lawrence's The American Monomyth (1977), The Myth of the American Superhero (2002) and Captain America and The Crusade Against Evil: The Dilemma Of Zealous Nationalism (2003). If the author's origin story is to believed he was turned from the paths of delinquency and onto a philosophical meditation of the problems of superheroes by... Superduperman in Mad magazine (which is also a big influence on Alan Moore's reinvention of the superhero).
Being nosey I'm curious why you didn't recommend Volume 2? I am just re-reading Volume 1 and it is truly an awesome comic boom outing. I think the later stories got increasingly... convoluted and there are perhaps diminishing returns but if you've read 1 and intend to read 3 then it might be a bit confusing to skip Volume 2.
Oh and on the previous discussions I had an eye out for the logos and the like when re-reading, so it is good to see they are left in, even if this is done because you can't easily separate them out from the page (without some rather crude manipulation). They are actually an integral part of the page design (which they use to good effect with the big Nemesis vs Torquemada double page where each of them gets their own title banner across the top of the page) so are important and it rather undermines the argument that they could be distracted in a trade. In fact, the stories are so compact and come crashing in and are gone again so quickly (most of them are only 4 pages, which is remarkable considering Kevin O'Neill isn't shy about getting a splash page or even too in there) that jamming them all together would be the most distracting, especially as these are more... "paternally" written (every tome Grobendonk speaks in a new instalment they explain he is speaking Gibberish, which would be annoying if you didn't have the new part flagged up so clearly). In fact, what struck me was that the whole design is superb - O'Neill handles the pages like a master and there are even lovely touches in the lettering (especially, those of the spiders, which become cobwebs stuck to the corners of panels. The spiders themselves being a good example of inverting expectations).
Hello j:- despite the fact that I don't think it's a work that's in any way a match for Books 1 and 3, Book 2 is an enjoyable tale, and it's odd to think of it being inspired by the circumstances you mention. I've always been fond of the story, and the art of Mr Redondo.
ReplyDeleteHello Mark:- it’s good to hear from you and, as always. I do hope you’re well. And from a purely selfish point of view, I’m glad to read your comment, because it’s reminded me how the way in which the Nemesis tales are organized and referred to might be perceived from one side of the Atlantic and the other. Over here in the UK, each Nemesis serial was referred to as a Book, and although the serials are still referred to as that in the collected volumes as such, it’s very easy to confuse the idea of book 1 of the strip and volume 1 of the collected strip. As such, I’ve confused you by just not being clear enough and I do apologise. I have, I assure you, gone back and added a couple of lines to make sure the piece above is clearer.
ReplyDeleteIt was the O’Neil/Mills stories that I thought I should concentrate upon for this list. You are SO right that there are elements of great value across all the three collected volumes, and I was very much tempted to just say “Nemesis!” , recommend the three collections and leave the issue there. And yet, I think that the list of recommendations will work better for the unconvinced if I really do try – within the constraints of my own taste – to isolate the real heights. For all I love Nemesis, I find much of volumes 2 and 3 very hard going :)
Ro-Busters! I do so adore those early strips, a mutant hybrid of Thunderbirds and the Star Wars droids. But is it a classic strip or a work that we love for its warmhearted virtues despite its limitations? Yet, how could I leave out Ro-Jaws …. ?
Hello Emperor:- I agree with you about the importance of what you call the inversion of expectations; it’s certainly so important here, isn’t it? And your examples are spot-on, as always, or , I assume they are, because I know nothing about Finn beyond what you’ve told me :)
ReplyDeleteMy personal feeling, for what little that’s worth, is that these tales reflect Mr Mills politics, and that the inversions you refer to is actually an accurate reflection of PM’s views. I think that he only seems to invert expectations if we approach his work from anything other than a profoundly left-wing point of view. I certainly wouldn’t disagree that he uses the technique of inversion, but I do suspect it’s as much if not more a reflection of his own world view as it is a way of presenting stories. He really does see The World Turned Upside Down, which is a business which seems far rarer in today’s pop culture than it did 30 years ago. I’m glad, as I know you are, that his work retains that informing passion.
”In relation to American superheroes and their conformist outlook, you might be interested in digging out John Shelton Lawrence's The American Monomyth (1977), The Myth of the American Superhero (2002) and Captain America and The Crusade Against Evil: The Dilemma Of Zealous Nationalism (2003).”
You do know what interests me! I had something of a joust at Mr Lawrence’s theory of pop-fascism last year on this blog, but I wouldn’t have done so if I’d have thought it was anything other than worth engaging with. And as a Damascus moment, SD-Man is a fine one to experience, isn’t it?
”Being nosey I'm curious why you didn't recommend Volume 2? I am just re-reading Volume 1 and it is truly an awesome comic boom outing. I think the later stories got increasingly... convoluted and there are perhaps diminishing returns but if you've read 1 and intend to read 3 then it might be a bit confusing to skip Volume 2.”
I’ve chatted to a few folks from the rebellious colonies, Emperor, and it’s really helped me realise that, for the purpose of this playful exercise, less is more. I’m obviously a biased guide to 2000 ad, in that I would like to think that its often distinctively British product could appeal to a broader international audience. And to do so, I wanted to limit the investment of time and energy anyone would have to make to get a sense of what has been going. I thought the absence of Book 2 wouldn’t be confusing, but I may well have been wrong, and anyone who picks up the collected edition – oh, there’s at least 2 or 3 that may! – in their local library or whatever has the choice of filling in the gaps there before them.
”Oh and on the previous discussions I had an eye out for the logos and the like when re-reading, so it is good to see they are left in, even if this is done because you can't easily separate them out from the page (without some rather crude manipulation).”
Argh! I removed a logo! I wanted to focus on a lovely sequence that originally came with the logo, so, shamefully, I edited. But kudos to the powers that be for leaving everything that I could see in its original shape.
“In fact, what struck me was that the whole design is superb - O'Neill handles the pages like a master and there are even lovely touches in the lettering “
Hear hear. And I never quite realised how very strange and yet apparently orthodox these stories were until now. Re-reading them for this purpose was so much fun, but of all the Nemesis Books, these are the ones to read if time’s limited and the will a little wobbly. I love the contrast between the macabre and the heroic, between the conventions of boy’s comics and the ferocious and broad satire. It’s such a unique, joyful mix, isn’t it?
Hi Colin: Oops! I'll try to blame my book/volume confusion on the fact that your essay was illustrated with the cover of the first collected volume. :-)
ReplyDeleteI honestly don't recall which collections are available in which country - I've just been plundering the Rebellion booth every time I see them at San Diego Comic-Con, and sometimes these books show up at local U.S. comic stores too. But if memory serves, I grabbed Nemesis volume 1 from a comic shop in Brighton, where the clerk cheerily instructed me to "Be Pure, Be Vigilant, Behave!"
Anyway, thinking about the original "books" as serialized in 2000 AD just reminds me that the last book of Zenith has never been collected in any form, and then I feel all sad inside. :-(
As for Ro-Busters, I was really impressed when I re-read all these stories in the new collected volume, and I think they hold up quite well. They're very much of a piece with the "evil humans" theme of Nemesis and Pat Mills's "Cursed Earth" serial, but I think the creators' obvious affection for the oppressed and work-obsessed robot underclass makes it even more emotionally affecting. It's refreshing to see a Mills story with genuine good guys!
Now I'm just waiting for a pretext to describe Mills's work as "dark, Satanic"...
Hello Mark: we'll have none of this confusion being laid at your table at all. It's my fault and the piece has been ammended. :)
ReplyDeleteApparently the first volume is just being released in the USA. http://2000adonline.tumblr.com/ linked to the piece, which was much appreciated, and mentioned the fact. Apparently volume 3 is sold out in the UK too, with volume 1 running dry until each is printed next. I'm really glad those volumes are shifting.
I love the idea of a comic shop worker saying that. (Are we talking Brighton UK or a US Brighton? I've had some good times in Brighton; it has a place in my heart.) I recall a few years ago getting offered a little more money than first suggested when selling a pile of old CDs, when the guy working behind the desk saw the old FOOM card I had in my wallet. There's a secret society out there of folks out there, although I guess actually working in a comic shop would mean it'd be a very unsecret secret society ....
There werer rumours of the last Zenith book getting collected. It's by far the least notable of them, but the whole series needs to be in print. Those legal problems have done no-one any favours.
Ro-Busters are such a sweet idea, or they were as first presented. I've got nothing against a touch of sentimentality, especially when its set in PM's usual caustic and enjoyable settings.
dark, Satanic .... ah! Now I never thought of that one, and I should have :) There's a great deal of Blake in PM's work, I suspect, but I'd never had the nous to use WB to describe PM himself!
Great piece!
ReplyDeleteIt's funny really, I grew up reading 2000AD, and remember being utterly blown away when I picked up American comics for the first time. I think the colour and the optimism utterly floored me. As I read more and more of them, the magic dimmed a bit and it was only when Alan Moore turned up to bring a bit of British cynicism to bear that it all looked fresh again.
Still let's not forget that American comics had their anti-heroes even before Moore turned up. Wolverine springs to mind. There was always a bit of blurring there. Plastic Man? Even Batman! I'm sure there are other obvious examples - does The Hulk count? Dunno.
Anyway, that's not to disagree with you. These are the exceptions (and Wolverine's probably the only valid one) that undoubtedly prove the rule.
Like I say, brilliant, brilliant piece.
Laters!
Namor!
ReplyDeleteThere's another one who's a bit blurry around the edges.
I just sat up in bed and shouted Namor, by the way.
See what you've done to me?
Hello Dom:- and I can only apologise for afflicting you so. In return, I'll hope you'll take some comfort from the fact that, in return, you've made me feel compelled - compelled I say - to put another another brief piece up today in response to what you've written :) And so, though I won't respond here, I will in a short piece I'll be putting up in about, oohh, an hour or so.
ReplyDeleteThe Punisher!
Lobo!
I mostly enjoy lurking here from time to time, but finally found something to say.
ReplyDeleteFascinating article, but I think you do a slight disservice to Ro-Busters in the comments. It's one of 2000ad's best (closer to Thunderbirds meets Muppets to my way of thinking) and a great example of Mills subversion in that the robots tend to far more human than the people. Also, the Terra-Meks story still chokes me up.
Much is made of 2000ad's black humour and satire, but, like it's forerunner Action, it also works well when it's characters are underdogs. Much of the classic 2000ad characters/strips involve one man/group/thing against everyone else.
Anyway, keep up the good work!
Hello paulhd:- I think you're right. Your words and Marks have made me realise that I'm danger of falling into po-facedness. If I'm as fond of the strip as I claim to be, and I am, then why aren't I giving it a break? I suspect faulty thinking on my part, and perhaps an unconscious worry that selling 2000 ad to what is a very small and knowledgeable group of folks I swap the odd e-mail with is challenging enough without thinking about Brit comic-book humour in its purest and least self-conscious form. I'm not saying that IS what affected my thinking, but I have an awkward feeling ...
ReplyDeleteNo, yours is a good call. I shall reach for the Essential Ro-Busters this weekend. Thank you :)
"Apparently volume 3 is sold out in the UK too, with volume 1 running dry until each is printed next. I'm really glad those volumes are shifting."
ReplyDeleteYes we are on at least the second print run of Nemesis now. Rebellion have a finite capacity for the number of books they can print, so sending things back for another printing does show the popularity of the books (presumably up there with Dredd as a big seller in the UK).
The US editions from Simon and Schuster should really help the sales in the US as they've only been available on import before now, which makes them relatively expensive.
I can see that because of the more silly humour (the main two characters must have the most audacious, and ridiculous, pun for names ever for instance) it's easy to think of Ro-Busters as an oddity, and a tougher sell. But Robo-Hunter had a similar streak of quirky humour and the escalating farce, with Sam Slade ever more bewildered, made it a winner. I'd go as far to say that Nemesis became a weaker strip when it lost a some of the humour - Kevin O'Neill's artwork is always, rightly, noted for it's sense of the grotesque, but it's also obviously rooted in humour comics.
ReplyDeleteIf I'd hit refresh before posting my comment I would have seen Mark's reply covering similar ground to my comment. Oh well, between the two of us we wore you down!
Hello Emperor:- it's good to know that the excellence is being recognised, isn't it? And I must say, it's been good to write these pieces too, in that, as we discussed, I wanted to express my respect for 2000 ad without coming anywhere close to toadying, and this feels like a good way of doing that :)
ReplyDeleteHello paulhd:- no, your point is a good one, and I really do need to work out whether my problems with the strips you mention are aesthetic or prejudicial. I'm very fond of both Sam and the Busters, but I'm sitting wondering about whether the stories themselves are excellent. The characters are endearing, much of the material is amusing at least and it's all always readable. But is it excellent? More reading is needed and I appreciate the nudge.
ReplyDeleteI do SO agree with you about the relative merits about the various books of Nemesis and the role of humour. Although my comments about Ro-Busters might have made it seem otherwise, it's humour that I gravitate towards and I'll travel a long way for even a half-decent shot of satire. The capacity of Mr O'Neil and Mr Mills to be both VERY serious and VERY funny means that "their" Nemesis outshines all other cracks at the property.
I'm glad you and Mark made the comments you did. When more than one car lets you know you may be heading in the direction of the wrong lane, it does help to focus the mind.
I don't suppose I can convince you Ro-Busters is excellent, if you find on rereading it that it falls short. But I appreciate your willingness to reconsider.
ReplyDeleteAre you also saying Robo-Hunter falls short of excellence, or am I misreading that?
I'm very interested to see what you'll be recommending next from 2000ad.
Hello paulhd:- I'm honestly saying that I don't know about either Robo-Hunter or Ro-Buster. I think there's grounds for my going back and making sure I've been approaching those strips fairly. In fact, both your comments and Marks have been excellent for my thinking, because I've learned from experience that it can only help to rethink decisions before a piece gets finished and put up. By which I don't mean that it matters what I think, this being a lil'blog and me being a lil'blogger, but I'd still like to make sure I'm thinking clearly and writing in a fair way. Reading both of you has set distant but clear alarm bells ringing, and I'd rather be proven wrong than make an argument I later do regret. In fact, I'm looking foward to spending some time with both over the weekend.
ReplyDeleteI hope the evening has been treating you well, sir.
Of course, after Books 1 and 3 of Nemesis (and Book 4 for that matter), Mills starts to add darker edges to Nemesis until he's explicitly just as bad as Torquemada but in a different way. And the interesting thing is that then Book 10 backs away from that. I wonder why? Did the ten year gap make Mills more nostalgic for the guy?
ReplyDelete- Charles RB
Hello Charles:- you know, I don't think we'll ever be able to deduce why that should be. We'd either have to be able to chance upon an interview which explains it or win a lottery granting us 10 questions with PM. (Me, I realise I have to go back and re-read Book 10 beyond the memory-triggering scan I undertook before this project in order to recall the detail of what you mention. Some expert, ah? Good job I own up in the title Bluffer's Guide.)
ReplyDeleteI'm beginning to think that one of the glories of PM is that he changes course when and where he thinks he should and in the way he thinks he should. Whether those decisions are right or not to others is obviously of no concern to him, as is of course quite appropriate. When he's decided he's fit for turning, off he goes. More power to him, no matter how often I state that the more recent work, Defoe excepting, isn't to my taste.
A very pleasant evening, thank you.
ReplyDeleteI'm probably more surprised about Robo-Hunter than Robusters. Verdus and Day of The Droids in particular being high points from the golden days of 2000ad. However, I don't mean to derail things by questioning every strip you don't rate as highly as others... there's plenty of time for that! I'm more interested in seeing what strips you'll be choosing, and it's early days to discuss what you left out.
As for the direction Mills took Nemesis in after book 4. I think it became muddied. Mills seems to be quite comfortable rewriting and ignoring what he no longer thinks works, and introducing his latest interests into storylines, and it can damage consistency. ABC Warriors post Black Hole storyline is a good example of this.
Weekend duties beckon. Have a great weekend.
Hello paulhd:- I'm very much moving towards the idea that Mr Mill's brilliance and his waywardness are part and parcel of the same process. I guess the same determination which drove him to follow his way back in the day when he did so very much to re-create British boy's comics drives him today where some of his less understandable decisions are concerned.
ReplyDeleteWith such a few choices on my list, I will inevitably leave be leaving out some of the most obvious and worthwhile of choices :) I would welcome knowing where I've gone wrong, and I do say that without any side. I never thought writing a blog was about being right, which, I must say, was a rare example of my adopting the right thinking at the right time.
I think you're right about Mills. The problem with ploughing your own furrow is that you're hardly likely to listen to anyone telling you if you go off course. It's down to the reader to accept that, and decide if they want to follow.
ReplyDeleteI think it might actually be sensible to not include some of the obvious 2000ad strips, simply because it's not just the excellent strips that made 2000ad great, it was the variety. Some of the odder strips gave 2000ad it's own special flavour. Return to Armageddon, Meltdown Man and, a personal favourite, Sooner or Later spring to mind. Not that I'm suggesting they should be given to beginner 2000ad readers!
Mills seems to be quite comfortable rewriting and ignoring what he no longer thinks works, and introducing his latest interests into storylines, and it can damage consistency"
ReplyDeleteYes, it's pretty obvious with ABC Warriors and Nemesis - my personal fave is how Deadlock is said to have given up on the Knights Martial because they became decadent, and then Deadlock becomes the cheerfully decadent and amoral driving force in the Khronicles of Khaos. I hope he apologised to the Knights for dissing them!
- Charles RB
"I'm very much moving towards the idea that Mr Mill's brilliance and his waywardness are part and parcel of the same process."
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely agree. I find myself infuriated and/or disappointed with various Mills tales (Greysuit, recent Dredds, the last 20 years of Sláine), and then loving others (current Flesh, Defoe, Savage) for almost exactly the same reasons. Mills does exactly what he wants with his stories when he wants to do it. Sometimes that results in an irritating inconsistent mess that besmirches the name of the strip itself, sometimes that means pure shining genius on the page. I've reached a point in my worship of the man where I can accept that you can't have one without the other,
Hello paulhd:- I have an awful feeling that anyone who chances in on the future blogs on this topic will find that most of my choices are rather obvious. But then, I've never had much time for folks who pretend not to like the more commonly appreciated aspects of culture because it's cooler to be obscure. When I like something that's obscure, it's because I genuingly admire it. I haven't the force of will to maintain an insincere position anymore, though a few decades ago, when both the world and I were considerably younger, I fear I was shamefully good at such an approach to things.
ReplyDeleteThere's been quite a few of the strips over the past year that I'd have given consideration to if the work had been collected by 2000 ad. Damnation Station was a strip I very much enjoyed, as was Low-Life, Stickleback and Lily Mackeenzie, if that can be classed a "2000ad" strip.
Hello Charles:- that's an excellent example of how Mr Mills can forget the detail of his own work, or perhaps just not care to pay attention to it. Yet even the broadest aspects of continuity can be thrown aside too by him.
ReplyDeleteI remain torn about this. I'm really pleased to see writers who aren't bound by the fine print of continuity. But PM uses continuity a great deal as a component of his own strips; it's not as if he has to weave his strips together. There's an element of wanting thy cake and eating it too there, I can't help but feel.
Hello Tordelback:- I wish I knew what was going through PM's mind when he writes some of the strips I have so much trouble with. I'm of course on record as thinking incredibly highly of much of his work, and yet some of the rest, as you talk about in the context of your own taste, seems so carelessly put together. There's the contradiction between the man who, for example, speaks very forcefully against sexism in comics and then portrays women as he does in so many of his strips over the past year. That gap between what he says and what he sometimes does, between his best and his worst work; it's just impossible to fathom.
ReplyDeleteWhich is, as we're saying, part and parcel of following the man's work. It's certainly a corrective to me to read that you're enjoying Flesh. I've got incredible problems with it. That we can agree about so much and disagree about that makes me feel rather heartened. It's as if Mr Mills, as one of his writerly functions, is making sure we have to think for ourselves and in doing so he's working to defeat any lazy consensus about his work :)
I certainly wouldn't recommend obscurity for it's own sake. My point was that Meltdown Man is not a collection I'd tell a newcomer to try, yet it is one that's looked upon fondly, not because it's obscure, but just because it's odd, and I couldn't imagine it existing anywhere other than 2000ad. Those are the strips that helped mould readers love of 2000ad as much as the better strips.
ReplyDeleteLow-Life and Stickleback have been collected, and, I think, worth recommending.
My patience with Mills more recent work has worn a little thin. I'm a big fan of creators personalities showing through their work, so I should appreciate it, but Mills dogmatic approach to his interests and sharing them, as well as relying on the same tricks he used when working for younger readers doesn't do him any favours.
I have hopes for Flesh, but wonder if they'll be met. I often come away feeling Mills hasn't taken the required care in making sure a story works, and blames the reader for 'not getting it'. Mills recent reworking of past successes would be less problematic if it weren't for my belief that he no longer knows how to make them work. Grayshirt is an example. Sadly, as much as Mills may believe in what he's writing, and may have researched the subject matter, his plotting, dialogue and characterisation undermine the seriousness of what he's trying to do. Mills seemed to produce far better work when his audience was expected to be somewhere between 8 and 15. That said, he brings more heart and energy to his comics than some of the other 2000ad writers, and as such, I'm glad he's still contributing.
Hello paulhd:- I'm sorry if I gave the impression you would make a choice of favourite features for anything other than the most sincere of reasons. I was merely speaking of my own concern about appearing to be rather lacking in anything other than the most obvious of tastes, and a feeling that I ought to be suggesting work that's less obvious, that my taste should be more daring in this context. I'm somewhat mortified that I appeared to be suggesting anything else. It's my own ego I was referring to, I do promise you.
ReplyDeleteYou're quite right to say that there are collections of Stickleback and Low-Life available. Sadly, and to the best of my knowledge, last year's adventures haven't yet been bound between covers, and it's those that I'm most taken by. Well, one of those older collections keeps appearing on m'shortlist ....
I must admit, your comments on Mr Mills has struck a chord with me following my reading last night of Slaine: Demon Killer. I was absolutely thrown by his fierce conviction that history can be divided into good and bad people, those on "our" side and those on the "other". And so the Romans are the enemy and the Celts the folks who're pretty much entirely in the right, and it's fine, it seems, to portray every Roman as a brutal beast rather than an individual brought up in an imperialistic culture. Now, of course the Romans were a dreadful militeristic culture; the genocide - it was nothing less - in Gaul is enough to prove that. But dividing up history into blocks of good and bad just doesn't seem very sensible or productive to me, and I find this division of humanity into THEM and US thoroughly unpleasant. I've no problem with satire which portrays the species as a whole as a serious problem. I do have a problem with deciding that the problems of Celt cultures - hardly peaceloving folks themselves - can largely be ignored because we're emotionally on their side. I don't feel that I'm on either side. I am far, far more sympathetic to the Celts - if we can call them that for shorthand - when faced with the Romans, but I've no doubt my ancestors contain folks from both groups and the past is gone.I don't feel that my folks lost at Hastings or won at Bannockburn either.
There's an ugliness which this them v us pov brings which undercuts PM's moral posturing. It's a problem made worse by the fact that his work can so often lack the humour which made the likes of the early Nemesis so entertaining.
I think Defoe was a fine, if not absolutely outstanding, piece of work last year. I shall certainly be buying it when it's collected. I had serious problems with both Savage, a nasty book, and ABC Warriors, a largely stupid one. Overall, I agree with you that PM seemed at his best when he had the framework of the expectations associated with boy's comics to kick against. Like so many popular artists, and I speak with "Tomorrow Never Knows" on in the background by chance as I write this, the period between "pure pop" and "artistic freedom" can be the most productive.
No apologies needed, I just thought it was a point that needed clarifying for both of us.
ReplyDeleteI believe there is to be more LowLife, and agree it gets better as it goes along. The artwork throughout is wonderful, but William's writing seems to hit it's stride when it gets funnier. Stickleback is wonderful, hopefully there'll be more.
I agree that Mills focus of good and bad with no shades of grey between is a flaw for work aiming at an older audience. It was fine when Hookjaw, Dinosaurs, Visible Man, Robots and Aliens were seen as the oppressed fighting back, and therefore 'good'. Once we get to Mills aiming for older readers and mining history it no longer works.
It's a well made point about the space between pop and freedom, it was a space Mills did some of his best work. Comics 'growing' up and creator freedom, ultimately didn't do Mills any favours, certainly, there was a lot of power to his subverting kid's comics with his sly humour.
Hello paulhd:- thanks for the kind words. I'll allow the mortification level to decay according to its natural half-life now :)
ReplyDeleteThere's so much about the adventure comics of both America and Britain that was at its best in that gap between pop and freedom. The Lee & Kirby Spider-Man was just such a beast, for example, and nothing since has had that almost surreal and yet hyper-real mixture of the childish and the profound. I'm for Revolver over Sgt Pepper every time, and your comment about "subverting kid's comics with his sly humour" a generally pertinent one; but if there's nothing left to kick against, well, that's when the real challenges begin ...
The Lee & Kirby Spider-Man? Oops!
ReplyDeleteLee & Romita's run was an amazing mix of soap and superhero, and rarely bettered (Nexus, springs to mind). But I'm a bit funny about superheroes, so I would say that:)
Perhaps Mills constant railing against perceived slights is because he has nothing else to kick against, and can't move on without it? Hmmm.
Hello paulhd:- I wouldn't want to challenge your opinion, but mine is that the Lee/Romita take on Spider-Man is the point at which the character looses its rough edges, its surprise, the friction between Lee and Ditko's world-views, and settles down into romantic cosiness. The people are beautiful, the stories are more or less codified, the adventure of the character's evolution is over. It's absolutely fine, and often far, far more than that. But it's not quirky and mass market at the same time, daring and familiar, comforting and disturbing. The smoothing out process has left a highly functional and often quite beautiful product, but it's not alive anymore as it was.
ReplyDeleteI adore Mr Romita's work, and I've taken up cudgels - as if it were needed - for SL here too. It's no slander on their work to suggest that that they were working within boundaries rather than pushing at them.
Nexus? I'm a big fan.
Your speculation on PM is genuinely fascinating. Will you ask him about it or will you?
yours, cowering ....
I like the Ditko and Romita periods equally, but for different reasons. The loss of the quirkiness of Ditko's view was definitely a shame, but I did enjoy what Romita brought to the table as well.
ReplyDeleteMy speculation is based on various interviews Mills has done, his version of events can change with time, and rather self aggrandising stance. Based on other people's run ins with PM, I think I'll just let him get on with it:)
Hello paulhd:- and if you're not bothering him, then I'm not either :)
ReplyDeletePhew. Safe ...
yeah, very good stuff this colin... i don't necessarily agree with all of it, or not completely, but it's (as usual) a very thoughtful assessment of some of my own favourite 2000AD pages. incidentally i understand why you are not dealing with book 2 at all here, though i think it's worth mentioning that one too in passing if only cos jesus redondo really rose to the challenge, and suited the story in such a way that one does not miss o'neill for that instalment - don't get me wrong, those centre-spreads in book 3 are treasured additions to my collection :)
ReplyDelete(i was only a kid when that stuff was first published btw. my dad loved it, i didn't get it, not until later.)
ever written about the judge child saga? if not, and i haven't finished exploring yet, any plans to?
Hello centrifuge:- I certainly agree with you that Jesus Redondo's work on the second book is delightful. It was something of a placeholder of a story, if I recall how its been described by PM, and shaped for JR's strengths. As such, it's a rather different Nemesis tale, with far less bite. But there's a great deal to be said for it, even if JR doesn't mesh with PM as O'Neill did.
DeleteLooking back, it was Nemesis which convinced me that 2000AD really was worth paying close attention to. I wasn't at all convinced by the single episode issues which first introduced Nemesis and Torquemada, but Book 1 and 3 are so incredibly inventive as well as principled. PM's politics aren't mine, but when work as fine as KO's is given that extra political charge, I find myself enjoying things all the more.
You know, the Judge Child Saga is something I've not read in years, but I retain real faith in its quality. The ending, in particular, is incredibly daring. I also have fond memories of Bolland's cover for one of the US reprints featuring a very large frog being offered an unwilling human victim. Now THAT'S art ...
yes, the toad's name is sagbelly :)
ReplyDeleteprogs 156-81, all art by mcmahon, bolland and ron smith (my personal dredd triumvirate... i'm old school in that regard, ezquerra had not reclaimed the character yet at that time, not really - sidetracked into strontium dog and other stuff (fiends of the eastern front etc) - the apocalypse war was of course his huge "return to the brand" but i hated the way he drew dredd when i was growing up - ! what i will admit is that he really grew up with the character later and is probably the only artist who totally understand him inside out. or something)
"terror tube" and "killer watt" were mind-blowing at the time, mainly the artwork of course, no-one knew what the hell was going on with the story. ("terror tube" was literally just to piss off IPC who had objected to the satan dart sequence in robusters, just an extended car chase in spaceships... so they did a whole story just like that and actually got it published - ! nemesis book 1 was waaaay too much for me to take in at the time, i had forgotten that until i came across those progs again for the first time in years and saw that for prog 230 i had rogue trooper first (??) and didn't place nemesis in the top 3 (yeah, i used to fill those in sometimes but never SENT them in!). it seems unbelievable to me now but it's true :-S
i am pretty sure mills had no idea that he was gonna get to dump a huge portion of his catholic upbringing into that story when he and kev first got to work... in a way he finally got to dump another monkey, namely the fact that he quit ABCs in disgust when he was forced to do 21 issues with six diff artists (you look back on these issues now, the artwork is pretty much great in all of them, what's the problem..? i think he had a valid enough point at the time) - and that he never got to carry it on. well, he certainly did that later of course.
i'm gonna shut up now. i don't want you scattering all round the blog just replying to me btw ;-)
Hello Hal:- Glad that I'm not the only one who came to Ezquerra late in the day. I just couldn't appreciate his work when I was younger, but, as you have, I've come to enjoy and respect his work. In fact, some of his work on the Dredd strip in 2010 strikes me as sitting with his very finest. He'
DeleteI did of course love the artwork in those first few stories. (Memory tells me there was a claim that one of them had been inspired by The Jams' Going Underground, though memory is not to be trusted.)
Rogue Trooper first? I love the fact that you've an objective record of what you actually liked rather than relying on unreliable hindsight. I'm sure that my taste was never as pristine as I sometimes like to believe it was.
My memory is also that Nemesis grew out of those one-shots rather than arriving fully-formed, though I'd love to know differently. As for having 6 different artists on ABC Warriors, they were good artists, weren't they? I'd certainly prefer that to the mind-numbing tedium of CL's work, which grinds me down with it lack of variety matched to its clunky storytelling. Horses for courses, I fully accept, but it's not for me.
Which doesn't mean that I don't understand why PM was so annoyed by the situation. It seems to me to be entirely understandable that he'd opt out at that point.
bit missing from that first para, colin. now, i'm also not sure what ezquerra's 2010 work comprises (by now you should have my email about my years with/without 2000AD!)
ReplyDeletethinking about it suddenly, it occurs to me that maybe it was ezquerra's being stuck on ABC which proved the final straw for mills at the time. i mean, i think really he wanted a proper chance for o'neill to develop an idea and see it through; those two have such a bond (esp. due to the lapsed catholic b/g) that they always made a fertile partnership. well, of course they eventually got to do just that as we've been discussing... meanwhile, back then it was still being debated whether kev's style was suited to a weekly schedule (nor could he keep it up for long) so they were always gonna need help, and mccarthy and ewins stepped up and contributed memorable work; mcmahon can't have been the problem - his work on ro-busters was superb and really added to the edge of the story's various sub-plots (besides, in the end his ABC pages are fabulous, some of those layouts look more like breughel than anything from the comic world); and dave gibbons - well, he was the classic utility man wasn't he, happiest when drawing his beloved dan dare (ugh...) - BUT he, too, had contributed unforgettable work to ro-busters so i don't think pat would've been worried about him.
but carlos e. was above all john wagner's guy, not mills'. was that one sign too many that no-one higher up gave a monkey's about mills' own feelings in the matter..?
*in other matters*
yes, the jam song is credited with inspiration for "terror tube", though to say the creators ran with it is underselling it rather. no relation to the song whatever... "killer watt" was in turn supposed to be inspired by an album of (nearly) the same name, but i have never found a trace of it; i'm guessing it was some bargain-end compilation which slumped arse-first into oblivion... which must have nonetheless briefly captured our guys' imaginations!
i'm saying prog 230 from memory, but it was the first rogue trooper anyway, iconic gibbons cover etc. little did i know at the time how bored i would get with the story later on... but apparently i was taken with the idea of this sealed-off loner with a talking rifle and helmet etc. tells you plenty about growing up as an outsider doesn't it ;-)
and yes, i think you're right, nemesis grew out of the one-shot/two-parter as the ideas took hold.
Hello Hal:- Thank you for the background info. If I don't respond a great deal, it's simply because you're covering ground that's new to me and it would seem fatuous of me to add responses so as to not look ill-informed. I am ill-informed and I appreciate the catch-up.
DeleteFair point on those early Rogue Troopers under Mr Gibbons though. As you say, it was brief high summer for the strip, and indeed what was to come - including an aborted and editorially mangled Mark Millar reboot - was so consistently tedious that at times I forget the strip was ever interesting. I recall an AM story from an annual which was fun in addition to that first run, but beyond that, I honestly can't remember much that shines about the character's history at all. Yet I still believe that he's a great character and ripe for the remodelling.
yeah, you'd think they could do something with him... moore did a couple of RT stories for annuals, and these have apparently been reprinted in a 2000ad extreme; one's with ewins which is ok, a fairly standard anti-war thing really; the other is drawn by redondo and actually has some thought-provoking material in it. but yes, back in the day i got bored sick of the whole thing pretty fast. what surprised me more than anything was looking back at those old progs and seeing the inescapable evidence (in my own handwriting!) of my early preference for future war stories - this wasn't a theme that interested me much as i got older. but then, like i say... nemesis didn't really speak to me at first, not until i started to grow up with it. i look back on those old book 1 progs now and some of the artwork in particular almost beggars belief. (do uncensored scans exist of those pages set in great uncle baal's study?)
ReplyDeleteHello Hal:- I think I just called you 'centrifuge' a moment ago in another answer: my apologies. I've had the privilege - and it is the privilege - to answer a dozen comments this morning and I just get in the habit of copying out the e-mail name after making sure I know who I'm talking to.
DeleteI'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Rogue that is a character with a great deal of potential. Sadly, he is a figure whose appeal was ground down by endless reboots and endless poor serials.
I think there have been some excellent future war tales in 2000AD, now you make me think of it. It's not a sub-genre which tends to be done well in comics, but in the Third Book of Halo Jones and in the vast majority of Bad Company, 2000AD certainly commissioned work which pulled the trick off. I'm sure that there's other examples in Tharg's cupboards which I've forgotten, but those two examples are pretty good exemplars in themselves.
yes, i remember bad company quite fondly i must admit... some very memorable images and characters in that. halo jones i re-read a couple of years ago for the first time in two decades, and it is very frustrating cos you can sense that by the end of the third book he is just about ready to shift it up into the higher gears. if he could somehow have completed the damn thing, keeping ian gibson on it, then i'm sure we'd all be talking about it as one of his great works; as it is, i personally feel that people tend to overrate it, usually because it's just so convenient to praise it for its pioneering female protagonist. (historically this may have some utility, but he always wrote pretty well for women and would go on to do much *more* in that respect later in his career... ah look this is just me, i am down on easy "point-scoring" in such matters!)
ReplyDeleteback to future war - you're probably right (i wouldn't really know - i did read an alien legion collection which was ok, i was mainly checking it out for the mcmahon art), but 2000ad was up for this even if no-one else was. it was one of their continuous categories on the vote-lists, and always scored high. either that or mills and wagner kept rigging the votes to favour their own pet subject ;-)
when i actually first read 2000ad (after at least a year of being told about it) the VCs was running, which i don't remember being particularly into but, again, one of my completed-never-sent voter thingies confirms that i was into the idea of future war back then. and yes, in theory one could get almost shakespearean with a character like rogue, a total TOTAL outsider, but the sad truth is a lot of readers were probably happy with his just slogging on and shooting norts :(
Hello Cent:- Oh, I entirely agree about the frustration of following HJ through to book 3 and then .... there's nothing more. I think that Book 3 is wonderfully rich, it's the quality that I most admire about it. In a time when comics can be read in seconds and drained of ALL their meaning too, the willingness of Moore, and his ability too, to make each single chapter a rich, fascinating experience is just inspiring :)
ReplyDeleteHah! I too only warned to the Alien Legion when the wonderful art of Mr McMahon featured. Great call about the VCs. I should - relaly should - have recalled that. It was never a strip which I warmed to, either in the original or the newer version, but I wouldn't want to imply that that's anything other than my personal taste. I know folks are very fond of it.
Your point about the shooting of Norts is a telling one. It's a matter which could do with more discussion in pop culture. Few people are engaging with the business of war in comics fiction despite the fact that we've been effectively at war in the West for more than a decade.
well, one of the things i caught up with recently (in my millar-sweep!) was war heroes... so what happened to that - ?
ReplyDeleteshooting faceless bad guys... this is a topic which merits a PhD thesis (and very probably a book out of it later, in time-honoured tradition). even tolkein is totally guilty of this one... i.e. if one goodie gets chomped, it's the cause of much wwailing and gnashing of teeth but 1000 bad guys pulverised is just a reason for celebration. so, just to make sure no-one has to feel guilty about participating in the emotional rub-down, the bad guys are made a) faceless, b) interchangeable and c) irredeemably evil. it says something very damning about our societies that (almost) everyone is basically allowed to get away with this tripe... but i am guessing you have probably spotted this yourself, long since...
... i only read that one collection of alien legion btw... don't remember the stories at all, the art was eye-catching though (in mcmahon's case, extraordinary as always... that guy really is a genius)
- and yes, book 3 of halo jones is memorable and constantly edgy... but where was he planning to take it, grrrrr... by then he will have had ideas at least for the next couple of books and probably beyond, and he is clearly intending to take it "upwards"... ah well, better to grateful for all the amazing stuff he *did* finish :)
Hello Cent:- War Heroes is, to my knowledge, a real mystery. Writer and artist appeared totally committed to the project, and then it fell off the face of the Earth. Since TD is still working on other projects, it's hard not to presume that there's been a falling out. Very strange.
DeleteThe tendency to thoroughly enjoy seeing the Other slaughtered is a genre fiction problem, as you say. Strangely enough, if a tale tries to subvert thatconvention, it can often feel unsatisfying. The last run-around Battlestar Galatica simply wasn't very much fun by the third series. I missed the bad old soulless Cylons ...
I don't know if you've been visiting McMahon's site. It's great fun. He put up some Roy Of The Rovers sides recently, and I doubt that anyone else's work on the strip could be so compelling. No insult to Saint Roy of course ...
thanks colin, i did go and check out mick's site - and tried to send him a rather gushy email no less, which (mercifully, in all probability) bounced in the event. but wow, some of those latest pictures on the comics pages, that later full-colour dredd stuff is arguably an advance on moebius, unbelievably dense work. cheers for pointing me at that!
ReplyDeleteah... well this is it y'see, now my dad would probably have loved me to take him to all those sort of movies as a kid, and we did see a fair few, but i just never went the whole way "sci-fi" (and indeed still rather snobbishly think of my interest as being in SF, and only pretty selective) and never really got into any of the tv series or anything. but yeah, in terms of what you're missing ... i believe you answered your own question ;-)
Hello Cent:- It's hard to look at MM's work and not feel that a gushy letter of appreciation is necessary, isn't it? The wrk is so enjyable, so individual and smart. It's such a shame that he's not a better known artist.
DeleteOn the matter of War Heroes; a few weeks ago, TD was quoted as saying that he'd happily be finishing the series if he only had some scripts to work from. MM has responded in public, but the whole thing remains a mystery to we punters. How could there not be scripts for the rest of the series? It's an odd world ..
odd indeed, and fanx 4 da update ;-)
ReplyDeleteerm... that reminds me... just ordered the "new" alan moore supreme #63, shall await that one eagerly. odd and yet not odd that he intended to wrap up that idea all in the same issue it's introduced. by that time... etc. folded in and in on itself, you see, like a samurai's dai-katana {{{@@@}}}
Hello Cent:- No problems at all :) And I'm also looking forward to the "last" AM Supreme. Give the stance that Larsen has taken over the whole wretched Before Watchman business, I'm confident that Moore was originally paid for the script and that everything is above board. It's a sad world in which the sight of an AM comic immediately raises the questions of whether the man's getting treated fairly or not, but there it is. Despite the howls of the Rump and its Fellow Travelers, these things do matter, and I suspect that the Before Watchman project will end up causing DC and the creators involved far more harm than they imagine.
Deletethe rump..?
ReplyDeletei'm not even aware of this project btw... jesus that's depressing (the number of INTELLIGENT people who allow themselves to come to the conclusion that *watchmen* the brainlessly enjoyable movie is "just as good" as moore's melville-influenced ... i mean wtf)
i did get the new supreme today though, great fun, shame as it ends on another cracking cliffhanger that would (presumably) have led to a major sub-arc... larsen acquits himself pretty well considering he's bitched so much about how hellish it was to draw - i guess it was hellish precisely 'cos he tried his best ...
(shan't be continuing with it though - he just wants to return the character to its "dick superman" roots apparently, god'elpus)
Hello Cent;- The trouble over Before Watchman really might cause DC more trouble than they ever foresaw. It's a despicable business, and it's a disheartening business noting some otherwise admirable professionals seeming quite happy to ignore the moral issues. I can understand of folks are in desperate financial straits, but apart from that, it's a miserable business.
ReplyDeleteI do like the fact that Moore set up the end of his Supreme series so that his successor could walk in and change everything. Good for him.
I too have no interest in following the series through. But as I'm sure you are, I'm dead pleased that the last of Moore's Supreme has been - I trust your judgment - so well finished off.
supreme's got one great metatextual throw-away which is kinda missed actually: one kid says to another - perusing the latest omniman comic which is subsequently purchased by dax - "oh, the art's ethan crane again, they should get someone good like chris sprouse". (sprouse would of course have been pencilling the actual comic in moore's script... )
ReplyDeletebut yeah very enjoyable - and the one and only, first actual germ of a "sexual awakening of suprema" overlapping story arc (to have been explored fully in youngblood of course, according to moore's pitch) as she bonds with diana dane. anyway i don't wanna ruin it for you ;-)
who or what is the rump btw?
Hello Cent:- Thank you for nudging me towards the Supreme without any significant spoilers.
ReplyDeleteThe Rump? I use the words to describe the remaining hardcore of super-book readers who will not swallow any old tosh, but defend it as if were the most wonderful example of wonderfulness.