Monday, 30 July 2012

On X-Treme X-Men #1 (The First Time no 1)

In which the blogger begins a new semi-regular series of Monday posts focusing on the first appearance of a particular comic, character or creator;

      
Greg Pak and Stephen Segovia's X-Treme X-Men # 1 is such a lamentably poor comic-book that it's not even possible to laugh at it. Even that gloom-easing, contempt-expressing pleasure is short-circuited by the sheer weight of dubious storytelling that's on display here.

Of course, that will make me sound like a stereotypically vile net-critic spieling out the evidence of my own inadequacy. So perhaps I might offer just a few examples of the kind of problems which make it tough to see why editor Jeanine Schaeffer didn't ask all concerned to just down tools and reconsider their efforts prior to deadline day.

           
1.

Here Pak has loaded up a tiny panel with a 60 word summary of Dazzler's private life, career and world-view. That in itself is an obvious example of a collapse of craftsmanship, but such over-crowding can prove necessary in moments of crisis. Sometimes essential information needs to be elbowed in to save a script, and it's not unknown that an artist's choices can result in pertinent material being regrettably absent from the page. Yet nothing - not a word - of this text is relevant to the story being told in this issue. It isn't even tangentially relevant to a tale which, as we'll see, suffers from a considerable number of plot-holes which could have done with a similarly excessive degree of exposition. Yet where the story's crying out for exposition, it's absent, whereas here, the panel's crammed with irrelevancies. Worse yet, Pak has just taken four slack pages to set up a nascent romance between Dazzler and a fellow musician. To waste that much space in a comic where there's so much that's ill-explained is a dubious business in itself. If X-Treme X-Men #1 really did require such a mass of backstory, then why wasn't it seeded across the preceding pages?

    
 2.

Wherever he can, it seems, Stephen Segovia is determined to use the whole-row horizontal panel. It really doesn't matter what the subject of the frame is, because Segovia appears convinced that the horizontal panel is the default and virtuous way of telling a story. To take but one of many examples, the scan above shows how Segovia chose to present even a scene of Blaire and Ito buying an ice-cream in such a narrow and elongated form. The claustrophobia imposed by Segovia's choice immediately undercuts any suggestion of romance in the situation, because the reader's struggling to make out what's going on at the same time as the frame's transmitting a sense of constraint rather than good-humour and possibility. But then, Segovia is capable of placing a tourist's entirely irrelevant and distracting shin, ankle and trainer at the eye's entrance point to the panel, meaning that the frame begins with an event that's entirely meaningless. To have Allison and Ito playing second-fiddle to a shin is surely something which the quality control folks at Marvel should have been keeping an eye out for. As a result of all these choices, the entire right half of the panel is utterly redundant and entirely uninteresting. There's simply nothing going on there which informs the plot, unless the bonnet of a ice-cream van and the simple, characterless perspective exercise which dominates the panel's last third are of some secret importance where a later issue is concerned. 

        
We can also find another prime example of Pak's throw-the-reader-out-of-the-story exposition in this panel, where the writer has Dazzler's walking partner declare; "I don't know about all that. I'm just Johnny Ito, simple country session musucian ...". To read is to cringe. Yes, of course Johnny Ito, simple country musician, said that, because that's a convincing representation of how people talk, isn't it?

Typically, the fact that Ito's a bass player, a country stylist, or indeed a musician, is again meaningless in terms of the issue.

       
It should be said that Segovia is admittedly stronger on scenes which involve lots and lots of super-people in generic fantasy environments. The above frame is undeniably very effectively done, following as it does the rule of thirds to give us a sequence of (a) Xavier speaking, (b) his colleagues responding, and (c) Howlett examining a dead alien's tentacle. (*1) It's a shame that Howlett's actions don't lead to anything which is shown in the subsequent panel. How odd that this frame functions to set up the one that follows, while nothing of what's been foreshadowed actually occurs there.

*1: It's a scene with one of the book's two great lines in it too. Pak smartly establishes Waggoner as a sweet lil'kid by having him express his delight that the Xavier-head didn't just save everyone on a threatened Earth, but their cats too. Along with a single panel's worth of bitching directed by Frost at Dazzler, it's the issue's only redeeming feature.

I'd swear that the pose given to Wolverine surrogate here is very familiar. Does anyone have any idea of what it might be a homage to?
         
3.

The above is the reader's first exposure to the "cross-dimensional X-Men" in action in the comic. As yet another horizontal panel, it does at least have the virtue of a touch more height. Yet the rule of thirds has been misapplied, unless the sight of a passive, largely unmoved Kurt Waggoner's profile is of some importance. (It isn't, and the placement of the character there does nothing to either help the scene make more sense or raise the level of jeopardy in the panel.) The shot is supposed to show the mutants facing an alt-earth-destroying danger. Yet Segovia has chosen to focus on his generically-posed victims and heroes rather than clearly establishing the peril of the situation in terms of the crisis itself. As a result, the characters appear to be running from nothing much at all, unless the reader squints and tries to make out what might be occurring there. It's a profoundly confusing start to the story which is further undermined by the placing of the text in front of the single collapsing building in the composition. Here writer, artist, letterer and editor all combine to obscure the meaning of events.

Not for the first time, Sergovia's work seems to here contain a conspicuous homage. The figure of Frost reaching down for her coat appears to be one originally designed to show a standing woman beating on a prone character. The fact that the coat that Frost's reaching for actually lies not below her hand, but behind it, certainly makes it look as if this figure has been adapted, and not too successfully either, for the scene. Perhaps it's just unconvincing work, of course.
 
4.

Here we've Sergovia on the more secure ground of a punch-up in a make-it-up-as-you-go-along setting,  and yet it's notable how askew his priorities are. While Dazzler is being dragged through a "portal" by a fearsome monster, the newly arrived X-Treme X-Men are shown pausing for Emmeline Frost to pick up and pull on her coat. Not only that, but there's time for wisecracks and disdain too, which again, as is common in this book, entirely punctures the tension in the scene. It's actually quite possible to forget that Dazzler's there at all, because she's portrayed as a relatively irrelevant matter crushed up in the top right-hand third of the page. How weak and slow, the reader's forced to wonder, is this monster's not-so-deadly pull? Instead of directing us towards the drama of the scene, Sergovia points us instead towards Frost's lusciously athlete body, which is obviously of central and yet mysterious importance to the narrative at this point.

Note the key absence of .... another portal in the frame!
         
It's a page which makes it hard not to wonder whether Sergovia was working from a full-script or not. Because either he was, and he managed to ignor the sense of what he'd been presented with, or Pak has scripted the scene in a way that would inevitably confound the reader. "Aw, man. Another portal?", he has Dazzler declare, although there's no second portal in sight. Indeed, there's no mention of such a thing anywhere else in the book. Both Howlett and his comrades and the tentacles arrived through the same phenomena, and both leave through the same one too. Perhaps Dazzler's referring to a "portal" or two that she's encountered in previous tales, although, in the absence of context or even a footnote, all that's created here is the opposite to clarity. A sequence which should be taut with tension is quite undermined by confusing dialogue and fatuous storytelling.

Five alt-Earths and a scene in the time-stream too; this is a book which doesn't pause for breath or sense.
5
 
Problems with pacing bedevil this book. The already-mentioned uselessly elongated courtship scene takes up almost a sixth of a comic which badly needs that space to make sense in. The cramming in of the destruction of one earth, the saving of its population, the attack on Utopia, Dazzler joining up, and the arrival on an apparently god-filled alternative Earth would probably defeat anyone's attempts to portray in a satisfying way. But Pak and Sergovia keep straying in irrelevancy and space-consuming money-shots, and the result is a comic which reads like an scrapbook summary of four or five different issues.

An exceptionally odd angle to shoot this frame from. Xavier is ordering the X-Men to go kill almost a dozen men, and yet their power is emphasised through the low-angle shot rather than his. It does succeed, however, in making Xavier seeming like a cartoonish idiot, mind you, since it has "his" X-men apparently treating him as a tiresome child while he's ordering them to go kill lots of other people.
       
6.

How is it that Pak's script has managed to reach the presses in such a sloppy and baffling fashion? The comic's full of moments where the experience of reading is derailed by an obvious problem with events on the page. How has Cyclops come to suspect that the X-Treme X-Men are in trouble when he clearly can't communicate with them? Why does Dazzler throw her lot in with bodyless Professor X's team when she herself presents a damn good argument for doubting the information she's being given. Just five panels before she apparently commits to the assassination of "ten different Xaviers", she's shown declaring that "X-Men don't kill". The explanation for why she changes her mind is, staggeringly, entirely missing beyond the suggestion that Dazzler will go off and slaughter folks out of a loyalty to anyone claiming to be X-Men. Why would she do this, when she's just received news that life on each of these super-people's Earth's is different to that of her own? What does the fact that they've all joined a version of the X-Men on different worlds mean under those circumstances?

No you don't Charles. You don't "believe" in infinity. You're well aware that the multiverse exists and no-one around you doubts the fact. The fact your pompous head is looking for is "know". You "know" that a multiverse containing an infinity of other parallel universes exists.
        
But then, how has this floating mutant head managed to deduce not only the existence of his evil counterparts, but the universe-saving need for their murder too? This is, after all, a character who Pak not only has speaking pretentious waffle, but absolute nonsense. " ... I believe in infinity", Pak has him announce, which, in a multiverse, is as sensible a comment as one of us declaring that we accept the existence of space-time. That's not a mark of a smart man, or even a useful narrator; it's either the sign of either an idiot or a bullshiter  who can't tell the difference between belief and knowledge. When the supposedly smartest person in the room is made to speak like a pretentious sixth-former after his first two inhalations of ground banana peel, it's always going to be hard to take the narrative seriously.


           
X-Treme X-men is a shoddy comic book which makes the Rob Liefeld's recent efforts for DC look entirely professional by comparison. (It's a comic which certainly doesn't make the Liefeld work seem any dumber either.) How is it possible that Marvel has produced a book by a writer as gifted and capable as Greg Pak that's as inept as this? Once again, the reader who's spent their money is left wondering just who it is in the corporate chain that's supposed to be paying attention to the quality rather than the hype of the product. If editor Jeanine Schaeffer isn't responsible for making sure that the comic which bears her name at the very least makes sense, then who is? Is it Nick Lowe, who's listed as "group editor", or Axel Alonso, who's "editor-in-chief", or Joe Quesada, who is after all "chief creative officer", or even Alan Fine, who's apparently an "executive producer", whatever that may mean.

             
Seriously. Where does the buck stop? Who is ultimately responsible for the problems in the storytelling in X-treme X-Men #1, and who is going to ensure that these problems - if they're credited to exist - are unlikely to occur again? For if we're not supposed to consider such things as important, then where does that leave the publisher's responsibility towards the folks who buy their books?

Because this kind of glossy and yet fundamentally bumbling comic is all too typical of a great deal of today's comics, and the problem doesn't seem to be going away.

        
Addendum

I removed the following on the kind advice of Malin Ryden - thanks ! - who explained to me that what I thought was some kind of aniomatronic device in the book was actually a street performer. I'd discounted that for a variety of reasons. Firstly, I'd assumed that such a performer would have been shown in context, with the various tricks of the trade around her. I'd also assumed that the fact we never see the figure's feet meant that it/she/he was stationary,, which hardly suggested a human performer. (Once again, that shows the limitations of those horizontal frames again. Why choose a type of frame which doesn't allow a decent establishing shot?) It also didn't seem to make sense to me that, in the last moment of the figure's appearance, human or not, it/she/he fails to respond to the real Dazzler bringing the performance to an end with a light show. Surely a character who's just been enveloped with such a remarkable experience would be at the very least surprised? (See the final scan in this post below.) Still, my mistake indeed, and despite removing it due to its inaccuracy, it remains below, where, if nothing else, it establishes both that this is often a perplexing comic and I'm a shamefully fallible reader. It strikes me that it'd be more shameful to remove the paragraph entirely than it is to have made the mistake, although it feels like a close run thing at the moment. Mea culpa.

       
"But perhaps the most outstanding and perplexing example of not making sense in what is, after all, just a single 20-page book, occurs in the scene begun with the above page. Pak's script seems to intend for us to grasp by the second panel that we're looking at some kind of aniamatronic Dazzler, though why it should be placed in the streets of San Francisco isn't explained in Segovia's art. Perhaps we were supposed to be shown a Marvel-Earth branch of Madame Tussaud or the likes, or perhaps there's a series of these wonders scattered along the pavements of the city. Whatever, it shouldn't be left to the reader to try to make sense of the situation. Indeed, given that lifelike statues of super-heroes are no more and no less human-looking than the folks staring at them in a comicbook panel, this page actually gives the impression that it's the real Dazzler that we're looking at. Segovia's art certainly gives the impression that the retro-disco star has taken, for whatever reason, to performing to small crowds of tourists and locals alike. Any slight doubt in such a reading can only be cancelled out by the page's fourth panel, where we're shown the figure's eyes for the first time and presented with the fact that her arm appears to have lifted her microphone to her lips in the space between the second and fourth frames. Unless Marvel expects us to be perpetually asking ourselves whether we're looking at aniamatronics or "real" superheroes, this is an entirely confusing page. Pak's smart scene-opening moment of doubt has become a scene-undermining problem."

Here the real Dazzler livens up her impersonator's performance with a light show. Yet the impersonator doesn't seem at all surprised by the situation. (Is she supposed to have her eyes closed during this climatic moment?) This was part of what led me to assume to assume that this was a device rather than a person. Still, two pages on, Ito does say that if he'd had "impersonators and magic powers", then he'd be "show-offy" like Dazzler has been. By that point, I assumed it was a reference to the events of some other tale. This is not transparent storytelling. The idea that a scene several pages before was being explained never entered my mind. (Mr Brigonos, in the comments below, raises the possibility that this is actually a female impersonator, which the chest in the first panel above would seem to support. I'd presumed that masculine chest was a sign of the figure's mechanical origins, but I find Mr B's explanation far more convincing.)
  .

43 comments:

  1. Given that Pak goes nuts with Dazzler's recap of her life, I'm surprised he doesn't do a better job explaining the portal. I haven't read the book, but I'm almost positive Alison is referring to the Siege Perilous portal, through which she and her fellow X-Men fell ... what, 20 years ago? Now, in Marvel time that's probably a year or so, but still. As insular as the X-Universe is, he probably IS referring to that event, but that's just ... awful. Awful, awful, awful. As much as I love Dazzler, I'm glad I skipped this book. I read the first few pages (with the weird fake Dazzler) and quickly put it back on the shelf!

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    1. Hello Greg:- Well, I was so thrown by the book that I had a person confused with a person-impersonating - ! - device! I have an awful suspicion that you might be right about the Siege Perilous portal, but that would be a ridiculous thing without a footnote or the like, wouldn't it?

      I recall the very first appearance of Dazzler in the Byrne/Claremont X-Men tales. Although she was supposedly forced on them, I thought she was a beguiling character and her debut was a great story. In fact, I've never read anything with her in it that can match that premiere. But I'm fond of her too. But then, I'm fond of Mr Pak's work too. I did enjoy Hercules, even if I found it a touch too decompressed for my taste. What happened in this comic is inexplicable. Who was minding the store?

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  2. Is the impersonator also meant to be a guy? I imagine that would make sense given the LGBT audience that purportedly likes Dazzler (but who Marvel tends not to pursue, sales stunts aside).

    I also find it amusing Dazzler sold gangbusters back "when disco was in", yet despite Lady Gaga making a career of Dazzler cosplay for the last few years Marvel could not possibly work harder to make the character less interesting or relevant to their existing audience and beyond.

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    1. Hello Brigonos:- From the looks of the chest in the character's penultimate appearance, I'd say it's a good chance that that is a female impersonator. But the storytelling doesn't make it clear. Could it be a robot female impersonator?

      You're too much of a young lad to know this, but disco had been destroyed by the fundamentalist/rockist "disco sucks£ campaign in 1979. Even bands like Chic were dead in the water then, and disco had to go underground and mutate into various less obvious forms. Which all makes Dazzler's early success so much more remarkable, because the very culture she was representing was long dead. I know a great deal of her huge initial sales figures were connected with novelty and the direct market, but there was a market there for a female character.

      The lack of interest in using Dazzler to discuss dance culture - even in its broadest and least accurate sense - has been so disappointing. And f'gawd's sake, as you quite rightly say, surely someone could've joined the dots re: Lady Gage and a host of really interesting female performers. Florence, for example, is a Barry Windsor-Smith heroine brought to life in all her pre-Raphelite glory.

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    2. Such a discussion isn't really likely as I don't think Americans know dance culture as we know it over here, seeing it as little more than festivals and clubs rather than a 1990s cultural movement, but Dazzler wouldn't really fit into that scene anyway, being more a performer than an exponent of cultural change, especially lately where she's retreated into the pro-fascism stance of the larger X-franchise.
      Ironic - and sad, obviously - that a property once tailor-made to explore the benefits of diversity is these days little more than a shill for reactionary political conservatism, but it's hardly surprising in this context that those creating those books can't think of a single thing to do with Dazzler.

      I wasn't sure about bringing it up, either, but that looks like a very low-energy and lifeless rendition of music on the comic page, though I gather that when it comes to comics, live music is a bit like car chases in being hard to render well.

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    3. Hello Brigonos:- I think that Dazzler finding it hard to fit into a particular dance culture would be a fascinating business. Comics do so little to tap into contemporary sub-cultures and even a media-researched approximation would be interesting. Bob Haney may not have really grasped the counter-culture - shall we say? - but his tales which touched upon it became all the more interesting because of that.

      I do worry for the X-Franchise once Kieron Gillen leaves. His run started off with a really smart look at the way in which culture distorts empathy and self-interest alike, and often touched on social and political issues in different ways. Of course, I only read parts of his run because I'm not paying Greg Land to peddle porn at me, so I may have missed some great some. And some porn.

      You're right about the lifeless representation of music. The fact that a performer is being shown from above the waste and without movement ... Honestly, if an artist is a beginner, he needs an editor's guidance. Where was the help here when pap was being mailed through?

      I'm trying to think of a superpeople book which has convincingly shown anything of music and people's response to it. I'm really trying, but ...

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    4. Andrew Taylor1 August 2012 16:12

      Hi Colin,

      I did a review for Scarlet Spider #6 a while back (Ryan Stegman's last issue before Khoi Pham took over), and while it's not a phenomenal representation of music, it does touch on something I've picked up now that I've been dragged to concerts by friends over and over: the spiritual bliss music brings. In the comic, Kaine goes to a concert that a friend (to use the term loosely) is performing in a church. While there, watching the performers and the other attendees enjoying themselves, he begins to think he can and should be a better man, after spending the series up to that point in denial about being capable of good.

      The music doesn't cleanse him of his violent past or anything, but it gives him a much-needed moment of clarity, and that it was something so normal that did so was very compelling.

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    5. Hello Andrew;- Please do feel free to come back and leave a reference to your review. I'd like to read what you had to say.

      I've been searching my worn-out memory for examples of the experience of music in the superbook, but they're few and far between, and many of them are embarressing or even camp.

      By contrast I was re-reading the splendid Hector Ugo for a piece I've been working on for ages. Now there's a book which captures the experience of clubbing.

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    6. Andrew Taylor1 August 2012 20:32

      The review's here:
      http://www.comicbooked.com/review-scarlet-spider-6/

      Looking back over it, I only scraped the surface of the connection between music and salvation that Chris Yost and Ryan Stegman make. Then again, I probably wouldn't have made that connection at all without Frank Turner's "I Still Believe" being stuck in my head at the time.

      Examples are pretty sparse, aren't they? I remember Morrison had Superman defeat Darkseid by whistling a tune in Final Crisis, but I'm divided about whether that was a good example or a bad one.

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    7. Hello Andrew:- your enthusiasm for the book shines through that review, and of course there's a scan there of a snippet of the clubbing scene too. Thanks for the link.

      I was entirely unconvinced by whistling Superman. It came across as a writer's choice rather than a believable reflection of Kal's personality. But then, story, as well as whistling, is all in the eyes/ears of the beholder.

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    8. Colin:I'm trying to think of a superpeople book which has convincingly shown anything of music and people's response to it. I'm really trying, but ...


      Whether this counts would depend somewhat on what your particular parameter for a super-hero comic book is, but a relatively recent example sprung to mind: Archie's Sonic the Hedgehog #221, whose main story centers around a concert by pop idol Mina Mongoose, whose band has recently altered its sound to better reflect Mina's concerns about the state of her home kingdom following a recent crisis. While well-inentioned, its message not only ends up hurting the feelings of one of the book's heroes, who feels Mina's message is an attack on her (which it kinda sorta is), its power is secretly corrupted and co-opted by a villain, who turns what should have been a catalyst for positive change into something else entirely. And while I lack the vocabulary to accurately describe it, I feel the art does a great job of conveying the energy and passion of a concert.

      Speaking of music in comic books, Kaboom!'s Marceline and the Scream Queens #1--a spin off of Adventure Time With Finn and Jake, itself a spin-off of the cartoon of the same name--also does, I feel, a really good job of conveying the energy of music.

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    9. Hello Ian:- Thank you for the nudge to Sonic the Hedgehog, which is well off my radar, though not because I'm being snotty. I have the Mark Millar stories, but nothing else, and it can't be said that they're very good. I fear I entirely missed the Sonic franchise's appeal when it appeared, and I've never really been hooked. Your description does sound intriguing.

      Marceline and the Scream Queens? Again, never heard of it, sounds terrific. I shall go investigate :)

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    10. In its current incarnation, Archie's Sonic the Hedgehog (as opposed to the UK's book, which is the one with the Millar stories) is probably best described as Willingham's Fables if Fables been aimed at kids; it has consistent production values and a stable creative direction, and its continuity has gone on long enough to let it accumulate a lot of history, making reading it as a monthly the comic-book equivalent of comfort food: it may not always be great (the current arc, for example, feels like it's been treading water after a series of very solid issues), but it's very rarely less than decent. While it's not a book I would recommend without reservation, I do feel Archie's current approach to it--which owes more than a little to the efforts of its current writer, Ian Flynn (no relation)--offers some interesting ideas about how to approach a book with decades' worth of continuity and a history of creators who've sometimes worked at cross-purposes. Of particular relevance to this post and comments about portals that may or may not be references to the Siege Perilous is its almost religious devotion to footnotes, and of making sure the reader knows just what every referrence calls back to and how they can get their hands on the alluded-to story. Not only that, every issue has an editorial corner which they use to briefly talk about the current story in the context of the series' history, which allows greater appreciation of whatever nods come up and is something I really feel more comics could use.

      As for Marceline, the one issue that's out was charming, entertaining fluff, notable mostly because there's not a lot of comics out there where vampire queens team up with princesses made out of bubblegum (named Princess Bubblegum, natch) to go on a rock tour. I started writing a review about this, and if you're interested, I'll let you know about it when it's finished.

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    11. Hello Ian:- You make a fantastically convincing case for a book that I'd never have considered checking out before. Obviously, I can't offer a single thing to what you've written about the comic in terms of specifics. But I will check it out, and remember, of course, that no one issue can represent a comic's virtues completely.

      I'm certainly interested in seeing how a series with such a considerable backstory deals with that. I struggle to grasp why the footnote is held in such small regard by so many modern-era comics. It baffles me that the Big Two are so keen to avoid being bogged down by continuity while often paying so little attention to clarity.

      Please do let me know when your review is up.

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    12. It's amazing what having people actually expecting my work does to my ability to get off (or maybe on) my fanny and actually producing it (^_^): the review's up. http://wp.me/p7vLw-7E

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    13. Hello Ian:- Thank you for the link, and now I really do have a much clearer of what the book's all about.

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  3. I have not read this. From your description, I am awfully glad.

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    1. Hello Sally:- I read 'em so you don't have to :)

      Actually, I was quite looking for to EX #1. A good writer, an X-book which can exist in its space largely outside of continuity ... It sounded very promising.

      It wasn't.

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  4. Hi Colin, Brigonos has to be right. Even before I came across the notion I was wondering why 'Dazzler' was being drawn so buff. And reading the sequence with the assumption that it's a man does say 'drag queen taking the mickey out of Alison'. So that's Alison in the brown jacket, whose face we don't see, sending her light effects to the impersonator.

    Not that any of it makes a lick of sense.

    They really spent four pages setting up a romance that won't be followed up on because Dazzler's going to be traversing the Multiverse with a bunch of mutant muppets. I'm so glad passed up on this one, the dialogue is painful to read; surely Greg Pak has been rewritten by an inept hand? I can't see him presenting something this bad as even a first draft.

    That panel of Emmeline reaching down which you sweetly assume is a homage, I'm seeing Gene Colan there. Maybe a night's sleep will reveal what it reminds me of.

    Regardless, excellent piece. Wouldn't it be refreshing if someone at Marvel actually addressed the obvious problems over here

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    1. Hello Martin:- Yeah, once I abandon my conceit that everything can be explained by a device that looks like Allison, the male Dazzler hypothesis makes all the more sense. Yet the fact that we're discussing the matter tells the truth, doesn't it? The very fact that I couldn't believe that the pages could be so slapdash and invented an absurd scenario to explain things shows what an awful job's being done here. The fact that we're arguing about the gender is another indicator of problems. How can any of this be confusing?

      I did wonder if Pak was some reason homaging Claremont in those scenes. X-Treme X-Men was Claremonts, wasn't it? But why would he would producing Claremont riffs in some plaves and not others? Does that mean that the "I believe in Infinity" is a Grant Morrison riff too? Whatever, I'm with you; this material is beneath Greg Pak and if the style wasn't editorially mandated, then I wonder why it wasn't editorially ... er ... edited.

      Now you say Colan, I have a flash of a panel in a story he did with Denny O'Neil featuring Micah Syn. In my mind's eye, that left hand is holding the billy club. I wonder ... It's a very good call, Martin, that is a recognisable Colan pose. Well, to folks with a brain it is. Oh dear.

      Thanks for the kind words. I guess the working hypothesis has to be that Marvel's editors don't edit the storytelling in most cases. It's hard to believe otherwise. Perhaps no-one's got the time and/or finance to do so anymore. I can't believe that the above kind of work would get past a system that was charged with quality control. After all, that would require a very odd idea of what quality is.

      Hey, ssshhhh about Marvel noticing. We know what happened last time Marvel's editorial staff noted me over here in the little-league lowlands. Quite a few folks at Marvel, including the editorial office, have been conspicuously kind and generous to me, and I'm grateful for that. But the thought of another great round of flakking ....

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  5. Hi Colin,
    Excellent piece as usual (I see you got a response from Ms Gail Simone on your Q post, we are becoming elevated, are we not Good Sir?! ;-)). Reading your spot-on analysis of X-Treme X-Men's storytelling failures (and you are *particularly* correct about the wonky "*hommages*" in the art and flakey irrelevant non-scenesetting) a few things came to my uncapacious mind. Firstly, there's the decision to revive the godawful X-Treme X-Men title for what seems another spavined spin on the Exiles concept, it isn't as if that poor title is going to evoke feelings of warm nostalgia within the sane at least (not that *I* am claiming to *be*sane admittedly) so why on God's Green Earth would Marvel use it here? I fail to see any sense in it at *all*, it's a minor thing but it points to a much greater general problem, so it's really not minor, is it? Which brings me to the second point and this is where I *really* get riled so uhrm "look out belooow"! Your observations on what appears to be editorial lassitude or slackness brought the following to he forefront of what I laughingly call my "mind": how much of what we see from Marvel is truly down to the *credited* "talent" and how much to editorial fiat? Sure, we can blame Pak and Sergovia for the mediocrity of X-T X but what led to it being what it is in he first place, certainly if tge comic came out this badly and it was published then we must assume it is what Marvel wanted, mustn't we? I wonder even how much Ms S had to do with crafting the work and how much this product was squeezed out under the edicts of her Dread Lords (and they usually are male) and Masters? I read an interview with Axel Alonso about the Crap...uh I mean "projects" that will be shat out...uh I mean "published" soon, specifically Punisher War Zone ( cos war is "great", dontcha know?), Red She Hulk, and (gags) Minimum Carnage ( that is *not* a joke I assure you, my bearded compadre!), what struck me was that they were *all*editorially mandated, the writers/artists seem to be an afterthought, Minimum Carnage was born out of a "joke" (ha-ha) between two editors, thus it appears we have an insight into the "thinking" behind many Marvel comic books, yet Alonso speaks as if there is nothing that could be considered wrong with this. The term " Shilling the Rubes" sorings to mind, I also find that when he briefly stops with the bullshit business doubletalk he says that he can't "speak for Jeff Parker" before slipping back into nonsense about Marvel's "commitment" to blah blah. It therefore seems suspiciously like the people who are actually supposed to be "telling the stories" are being treated as of secondary importance to whatever sophomoric "inspiration" the editors have, particularly hose at a higher level, I may,of course, be wrong ( but don't count on it!). The use of titles such as - bwahaha - "Executive Producer" in comic books suggests that something is rotten in the state of Denmark. At least Stan Lee or Mark Gruenwald were entertaining (and wrote asome great stuff) Alonso, Quesada and Co come across purely as arrognt corporate shills who can't really consider that they or Marvel can do wrong, not ti sat tgat DC is any better. Of course, if they took a differenr tack ant things *improved* they would have to admit to past bad decisions and I can't see *that* happening! Rant ends. Sorry for the stridency, keep fighting the good fight, Col...
    Regards, Robert

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    1. Hello Rob:- I very much appreciate Ms Simone's generous, kind words. I'm a great admirer of her work, as the blog shows, so I'm humbled by her words.

      I actually think that X-Treme X-Men is a good idea. I wasn't fond of either the first volume or Exiles, but the basic premise could enable some really good stories which might side-step constricting continuity.

      The matter of quality control is worrying, isn't it? In teaching, it's the line manager who also has to carry the can for problems if they've not been monitoring things and trying to put them right. I wonder whether there's the finance to have editors who are engaged in monitoring the storytelling to the degree that fans would hope would happen. I am NOT suggesting that editors don't care or don't work dam hard. Nor am I suggesting that they aren't involved with editing storytelling. But this comic slipped through that net and it's hardly the first, to say the very least.

      So, who's guarding the guardians and making sure that they know what they're doing and delivering it? I don't know what happened, but if my criticisms have any credit to them, then where was the help to the creators so they caught themselves and got on track again? This is Greg Pak, for example, a FINE writer?

      I understand your dislike of the titles Marvel are putting out. I too would like more diversity and less team-books, crossovers etc. Yet any of those books could turn out to be splendid. I've always thought it's the creators and not the property, and some of the medium's greatest books and most successful characters have come out of the also-ran pile. So, yes, I just MIGHT do things differently in Smith-World, where all the comics company ANSWER TO ME!!! But, as you suggest, the mystery is the question of who's really leading the parade and what resources have they been given.

      After all, Mr Alonso has been associated with some very fine projects, and Mr Quesada was in charge of Mravel during the 00-04 period, which I regard as one of the 5 great periods in the history of the superhero. So it's all a mystery, despite a great deal of the evidence being out in front of us.

      I understand what you're expressing. As fans and readers, we'd like to be able to buy into the fare we so enjoy. The problem is, we just don't know what the problems are behind the Wizard's curtain.

      Whatever they are, they seem to be pretty challenging ...

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  6. I read the review over on CBR, which was... less than glowing, and the pop over here to see you weren't exactly blown away by it.

    What I don't understand is where this could have gone wrong. Pak is a talented writer who delivers great, fun stories that are also smart and have heart. He get to play with a mix of new characters and ones I can't imagine anyway else wanted to use (like Dazzler), all in a new title set in parallel universes, so I can't imagine there's be any need for overbearing editorial mandates (which you would get with the key characters and core titles). Which makes it all the more mysterious.

    A comic book is a team effort, so you never know where the main problems sneaked in. I do wonder if it was written using the Marvel Method, which can work if you've got the right artist, but could go wrong if you don't. The apparently unnecessary pages spent on a romance that seems to be jettisoned later on, might suggest something like that. However, there is definite evidence of a need for some editing there - that first panel reads really badly and if I'd been proof-reading it I'd have stuck a line through "myself" as it is not only unnecessary but can throw the reader of (I had to re-read it to get the gist of it). So it might just be that a writer reaches a level where they are almost uneditable, for various reasons (did you read that recent interview with Andy Diggle about trying to edit Pat Mills? That is certainly one way, although I think it is a pretty rare one but it possibly explains a lot of thet opics we've previously discussed ;) ). Perhaps the Marvel Method is trickier to edit - the outline seems great but then the next stage you see is the art, so what do you do? Send it all back to be redrawn? Ah well, it will probably have to remain a mystery and perhaps it'll all get pulled together next issue.

    All that said, the general verdict from the CBR thread on this and the general conclusion seems to be that it was OK and the CBR review wasn't any good, so... horse for courses.

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    1. Hello Emperor:- Yes, Kelly Thompson's review wasn't a good one, and when I saw it, I was surprised, because she's a good reviewer - to say the least - and I was shocked that Marvel would let a number 1 out that that's flawed. She was of course quite right.

      I agree with you wholeheartedly about Mr Pak's undoubted work as well as the potential of the book. Identifying the problem will, as you imply, always escape us because we don't know how the book was put together. For example, Segovia's work is really not up to scratch, but did he have the time he needed and was he given the kind of support which would've said "Mr S, you shouldn't use a horizontal frame for that because ..." and so on. After all, the internet means that layouts can be sent in and responded to immediately, and though comics do need to be largely left in the hands of the professionals who are doing the job, some measure of supervision is clearly needed. With it, this book might have passed muster, and surely the number 1 issue is the place to pour the editorial influence into?

      I would agree that the book appears to have been written according to the Marvel Method. Yet I've been wrong about such assumptions before!!!

      I didn't read the Diggle interview. You wouldn't have the address, would you? I would appreciate it.

      I know exactly what you mean about the plurality of opinions present on the net, and I sympathise with the professionals who decide that it's not worth listening to anyone. In the end, the one criteria that perhaps folks ought to listen to is that which relates to simple basic storytelling competencies. And somewhere down the line, EXM failed to display a great many of them.

      Oh, well. There's too much to read and too little time and money. Unless trusted voices suggest that I should go back, EXM won't be seeing me or my money again. And that's a shame, because I wanted to like it. I really did.

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    2. "For example, Segovia's work is really not up to scratch, but did he have the time he needed"

      A good point, we don't know if he was drafted in at the last minute to cover for someone else... Then again I can't imagine it had a deadline that couldn't be adjusted - nothing else appears to rely on it.

      "though comics do need to be largely left in the hands of the professionals who are doing the job, some measure of supervision is clearly needed."

      It depends on what all these people actually do. When you read the X-Positions over on CBR it almost seems like they are throwing out crazy concepts for creators to flesh out (like Minimum Carnage) or just helping make sure the contents of the comic match continuity or don't mess up some else's comic. Then again, a writer rarely tells the story of the times they've been made to do re-writes so...

      At the same time you have Fraction/Aja's Hawkeye, which seems to be a bit of a hit and it appears like the editors just let them go for it, but perhaps that is the beauty of it when good editing works well. Or could it be that if you throw enough stuff at the wall...

      "I didn't read the Diggle interview. You wouldn't have the address, would you? I would appreciate it."

      Here you go

      "I know exactly what you mean about the plurality of opinions present on the net, and I sympathise with the professionals who decide that it's not worth listening to anyone."

      Or they learn not to listen to we elitist snobs ;) Pat Mills certainly thinks the reception to American Reaper was so much better than you'd find anywhere online ;)

      "Oh, well. There's too much to read and too little time and money. Unless trusted voices suggest that I should go back, EXM won't be seeing me or my money again."

      And that, in the end, is the thing - we may never solve the mystery, but even if we did it'd not make this a more enjoyable comic for you. So you can only vote with your wallet.

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    3. Hello Emperor:- Well, it may look as if X-Treme X-Men had nothing on it, but if anything of we hear about Marvel's current imposed MO, the quarterly/monthly returns may have been hit by a delay. Small hits can accumulate and things MIGHT be as tough as the rumours say.

      I have no idea what Minimum Carnage, but you're not the first person to mention it. Yes, it sounds like utterly inane work, but I wonder what's driving it. It could be editorial stupidity, or it could be a need to accumulate the maximum return from an exploitable audience. Or some mix of the two etc etc I wish Marvel really was in one of its throw-it-against-the-wall periods. The three great eras of Marvel have all seen books being published with relatively little concern for what the market was assumed to be re: previous sales figures.

      Thank you for the link. It's a great interview. I'm impressed by MS, of course, and in particular the way in which the sexism of pre-2012 days was bled out of the comic. Either or contributors just stopped submitting crass stories. With a few passing mistakes, the comic has really turned that corner. Good for Mr Smith.

      I worry that Pat Mills would ever write American Reaper, let alone consider it a success. His business, of course, but ... it's not very good. It's really not very good.

      Voting with the wallet. The problem is that the Big Two appear to have opted to sidestep that by largely targeting the folks they believe will keep Rumpishly swallowing the product regardless. As a short-term strategy it's dubious but, to a bean-counter, understandable. Beyond that...

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    4. "Well, it may look as if X-Treme X-Men had nothing on it, but if anything of we hear about Marvel's current imposed MO, the quarterly/monthly returns may have been hit by a delay. Small hits can accumulate and things MIGHT be as tough as the rumours say."

      I seem to have missed this, do you have a link?

      "The three great eras of Marvel have all seen books being published with relatively little concern for what the market was assumed to be re: previous sales figures."

      #sigh# I look forward to this happening again but with them evolving a meta-franchise of movies perhaps innovation is less important. I do hope not.

      "I'm impressed by MS, of course, and in particular the way in which the sexism of pre-2012 days was bled out of the comic."

      He is doing a bang-up job - just the logistics of keeping everything coming out on time week-in-week-out is astounding but then you factor in keeping an eye on content to keep the quality up and avoiding falling into any traps and it all gets mind-boggling.

      I know you'll pooh pooh this notion (so I'll nip that in the bud now) but you have had an impact on this. It is difficult for any one blogger to have much of an impact on the Big Two (although I'm sure you've given a few folks something to think about) but 2000AD doesn't get much coverage and we know quite a few droids read the blog so...

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    5. Hello Emperor:- Probably the best article on this can be found here:

      http://www.comicsbeat.com/2011/10/21/marvel-layoffs-the-cheapskate-is-coming-from-inside-the-house-of-ideas/

      There were some interesting pieces from Bleeding Cool on Isaac Perlmutter's regime at Marvel too;

      http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/10/20/the-spinning-pennies-of-marvel%E2%80%99s-isaac-perlmutter/

      http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/04/22/isaac-perlmutter-packing-heat-pushing-disney/

      Perhaps you know them and I just didn't describe them well enough for you to recognise what I was talking about. Mea culpa. If you've not seen them, those pieces seem to me to be the most important things we have to try to answer the question of what might be happening to Marvel. Perhaps just 1% of the answer, but an important 1%. It would explain the conservatism of so much the company does, for one thing.

      As I say, a partial explanation, but one not to be left off the table.

      Your last point is a generous one, but the very idea does indeed seem to immediately lead to - in the sense of rightly denigrating myself rather than than being unkind to you - pooh-poohing. But I do know that I wish that I still had the time to write the 2000ad blog, and that I must write more about it.

      Time to give that some real thought.

      I hope those links are of some interest, though I suspect that it's all stuff you know.

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    6. Ah yes, I hadn't really put those together with this. I thought this was a good summary (especially the CBR piece they link to):
      http://www.comicsbeat.com/2011/11/25/brevoort-and-alonso-on-whats-up-at-marvel/

      The general reading of the auguries suggests a risk-averse culture, aiming for short-term profits over long-term growing of the IP. One thing I thought was telling was that the trades aren't kept in print longer, even though they will sell more and help grow sales (if a title takes off, people coming in might struggle to buy the trades, so they can't build momentum from good word-of-mouth - the anti-Vertigo is telling), I believe they've just done another round of stock clearances. Boosting output on the core titles and trimming the fringe. X-Treme X-Men is a spin-off from Pak's (successful as far as I can tell) run on Astonishing X-Men.

      "We don't do R&D at Marvel."
      http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=35553

      Despite Rich Johnston saying this in the fist BC link: "The one thing that doesn’t appear in the books however is Marvel Publishing’s role as a research and development body for the rest of the company. As has been demonstrated, the films aren’t just drawing on the sixties work of Stan and Jack, they quite specifically reference work of recent times by JMS, Bendis, Mark Millar and more."

      Let us not forget that the Annihilation re-boot not only proved popular but seems to have led to a Guardians of the Galaxy film. Of course, I'm sure the folks over there know that too.

      They also have a strong talent base and one of the best slates of characters in the entertainment industry. Now if only someone would ease off on the pursestrings ;)

      I do wonder what the difference was during their successful run at the start of the noughties.

      "Your last point is a generous one, but the very idea does indeed seem to immediately lead to - in the sense of rightly denigrating myself rather than than being unkind to you - pooh-poohing."

      I smelt that pooh-pooh a mile off, but that doesn't mean it is a valid one and my point still stands.

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    7. Hello Emperor:- I can only agree with what you say about the picture of Marvel which these various sources suggest. Of course, what we've been given is actually a mish-mash of different accounts from different folks with inevitably distinct experiences and agendas. Though what we've got can only be an aspect of the truth, it's worrying enough, isn't it? To read of office staff wishing that they had enoug toilets, let alone anything connected with commercial/artistic matters, is to feel that the industry won't be able to rely in Marvel to create a fifth great era of super-books. If things are as tough as some reports suggest, then it's to the credit of a great many folks in the company that things have gone as well as they have.

      I think that's one of the things which concerns me about the debate about both Marvel and DC. Though reviewers -such as my shameful self - are forced to work on the assumption that creators and editors have a determining imput into their books, the truth may well be that there are other back-stage issues imposing on the quality of the work too. That worries me, and it's why I wrote the list of editors in the above. If X-Treme X-Men's editor hasn't been able to shape this book as we folks out here in the world assume is a given, then who is picking up the slack?

      I agree with all the points you've made. In particular, the peripheries of the superbook - from 1961's Spidey through the likes of the Fourth World and Starlin's cosmic world right through to DnA's Guardians - have often been where the new ideas are polished and developed. Destroy the "little" books and I suspect that things will just keep getting more worse ...

      The difference between the early noughties and now according to the reports seem to be three-fold. The economy is in the toilet, Bill Jemas got his marching orders, and the presence of Disney. How to define those influences or weigh their comparitive influence is beyond me. But what we see really doesn't reflect what the typical fan quite understandably perceives. I wish I knew more, just as film fan always wants to grasp how the studios work; it IS very relevant to the product.

      A shame the information is so limited ...

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  7. Hello again, Colin!
    Don't get me wrong, the reality-hopping premise could of course be put to *great ends*, unfortunately I don't think that's going to be the case here ;-). I'm nor sure why they*ve appended the (awful - did I not mention that?!) X-Treme X-Men title to what is basically another iteration of the Exiles concept, it just seems *daft*. I wonder why Marvel didn't try something mote adventurous this time out instead of restricting the book to our mutant pals? Pak can be a *pretty good* writer bur I don't think this is in his bailiwick at all (no offence to him), if only there was a modern Steve Gerber out there (I am aware that there are some writers who could be compared to him but they just don't have that particular distinctive *spark* that he had at his peak). A shame.
    Yep, 2000-2004 saw some good venturesome stuff but the last six years has seen more troughs than peaks, as Marvel took the wrong lessons from that period (cranky as Jemas was he deserves some credit for his work). I think that if you read that CBR interview with Alonso that I mentioned you would see what set me off (Mad Dog!), and possibly (?!) agree with how dismaying that particular peek nehind behind the curtain was. I may, of course, be *wrong*!
    I boughtI

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    1. Hello Rob:- Well, the truth is that we know - or we think we know - that the funding for anything other than books which make a good return immediately isn't strong at Marvel. We even know that the graphic novel dept is working under incredible constraints. If that's so,then a great deal of what Marvel do has little to do with its editorial staff at all. By which I mean, I don't think there's a huge amount of freedom to pursue new ideas and experiment. And so, Extreme X-Men is probably a more commercially viable title than Exiles. For one thing, it's got the franchise's name in its title. In commercial terms, it makes sense. The problem of why such a poor book was issued and therefore commercial self-interest violated is interesting, but again, is it possible that editors just don't have the time and/or resources to do that?

      I would agree that there are no Steve Gerbers out there. But there are some fine writers in their own right. Kieron Gillen's work on Journey Into Mystery is of a quality that I'd put it next to Gerber's best in titles like Man-Thing and Defenders. A different sensibility and style, of course.

      After all, there weren't any other Steve Gerbers in the mid-Seventies either :)

      I do totally agree with you about the post-2004 period at Marvel. With a few highlights - the first few years of Agents Of Atlas, Gillen's work etc - it's been slim pickings indeed, and much of the decisions made seem inexplicable in terms of the product itself ....

      .... unless we factor in the institutional constraints which may be operating. And there, I think, things may - only may, I don't know - well be tougher and more challenging than is generally banded about.

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  8. Hey, Colin,
    My last comment was posted prematurely (bugger!) then my attempts to follow it up got eaten due to my device (double bugger!) :-P! I just wanted to say I bought the celebratory Peter Parker Spider-Man #156.1 "Old Haunts" by Roger Stern and enjoyed it very mucg. It features the *real* Peter Parker/Spidey, a hero who for all hus flaws is willing to risk his life to save even a villain (a comon-or-garden scumbag willing to murder ordinary workers for the "good of the company", the Brand Corporation, metaphor?!); this is *my* webhead, he helps out tge illegal immigrant workers by giving them tge details of a Mr Matt Murdock, fine inspiring stuff. Mr Stern manages to work in references ti the origin of Spidey and what has served to make Peter *Peter*, oh and hus foxy friend Norah appears too (yeah she's a comic book character, what of it?!). A worthwhile if low key read.
    I lived yr Unrequited Loves list, poor Walter the Wobot, Matt Cable, and Krazy Kat! My favourite is Lana Lang, I never could understand why Clark wasn't head-over-heels for the lovely,warm, intelligent red-headed Lana! Maybe that has something to di with seeing Annette O'Toole in Superman III ;-) but Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow was devastating too. What d'you mean, "she's fictional"?! Ow dare you?! Ha. Seriously, Col you're a marvel! Fine work as ever.
    Regards, Ramblin' Robert

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    1. Hello Robert:- I've got the Peter Parker issue coming in a small but eagerly awaited package from the splendid A Place In Space. What you describe makes it sounds waiting for :)

      Thank you for the kind words about the Unrequited Love List. While I have every respect for Lois, I myself have always thought Lana has had, depending on her creators, some wholly admirable qualities. I think I first noticed her in the Dave Cockrum-illustrated Fatal Five story for Superboy & The Legion Of Superheroes. She seemed a good egg, but I'm sure Clark knows best.

      Fictional? Of course not.

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    2. That Cockrum Lana story, was that the one with Clark and Lana sitting under a tree, when a Legion mission came up and he knocked her out with an apple (and that was when she WAS his girl!). As a kid that scene seemed really sexy to me, dunno why - maybe those long, long Grell limbs.

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    3. Hello Martin:- It was! Somewhere around S&TLSH 197 or 8. How can I put this? I read that when I was tumbling into adolescence and the whole scene in the fair seemed terribly highly charged. In fact, from that point onwards, my loyalty was with Ms Lang!

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  9. Talkimg of graphic novels and Steve Gerber and 'what do editors do?', did you see the second issue of the 'chopped down from a graphic novel' Infernal Man Thing by Gerber and Kevin Nowlan the other week? Gorgeous stuff.

    In the back, though, there's a partial reprint of the story that inspired the newer work - with a double-page spread cut across the page turn!

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  10. I just thought I pipe in my lowly opinion on the state of things over here, under the X-men Extreme book (which I have not, nor will I, be buying/reading). I agree with your assessment of the book - lacks clarity, poor continuity, a mash up for mash up's sake etc. Plus, I learned my lesson from the Exiles series ( in my opinion: awful stuff).

    Marvel Comics is going through a strange and turbulent time. When Geoff John's Aquaman comic is out selling every Marvel comic every month, you know things are probably crazy over at the old bull-pen. I suspect that this has to do with the fall out of being bought up by Disney. I would say that the plot holes and lack of focus are not the result of too little over-sight, but rather too much over-sight.

    I can't be the only one who thinks Roger Stern is getting out while the getting is good. I can just see Greg Pak (and the rest of the creative teams)e-mailing their drafts in for approval, and then having them come back with editorial notes from the Marvel big wigs, and the Disney lawyers (a very litigious group: almost as bad, if not worst in some cases, as Scientologists), filtered through Disney's creative team.

    Yes, Disney is on the record for saying they will keep a "hands off" approach to the Marvel books, but nobody actually believes that. Too many chefs in the kitchen ruin the stew and the Disney-Marvel team up is definitely serving up some bitter meals. I can't help shake the feeling that Disney is putting "strongly worded suggestions" into these recent Marvel books, in the hopes of tying them into their pre-planned schedule of animated shorts, movie tie-ins and related merchandise (paid up front, not by Marvel, but rather, by Disney).

    I don't think it's too far fetched to say that without Joss Weadon's multi-million dollar Avengers movie success, Marvel would've gone down the tubes (or at least, had been forced to cut way back). Even the re-boot of the Spider-Man movie seems like a Disney tactic: "Yes, those Sam Rammi movies sold well, but our animators at Disney don't want to draw all of those 'web-lines' on his outfit...So, what if we put Peter Parker in the 2999 suit instead...?" Ah, yes, much better...

    Don't kid yourself, the days of the free-wheeling Steve Gerber, the thought provoking 'drug stories' of Stan Lee and Gil Kane (and all those Byrne/Austin continuity-changing X-men stories) are over.

    Comics, now more than ever, is a business first, a hobby second...and this New 52 stuff (which are not great comics by any means: They're no Harker that's for sure) is the dominate reason for Marvel to 're-set' all all of their books this fall. Brace yourselves. The next few years (like the previous two) are going to be a bumpy ride.If you think she-male, robot Dazzler was a curve ball from nowhere, just wait...My spidey senses are tingling...

    "Yes, that Captain America comic makes no sense, but we plan to move a lot of Captain America lunch boxes this year, and we'll iron that stuff out later in the Captain America movie, so just publish it..." What's a Marvelite to do?

    As always, Colin, another excellent post and great work! Sending along my best...

    As a side note: No, the dance revolution of the 70's is not portrayed much in American comics. If you want that, you need to dive into the manga world of comics (they have comics that cover everything from fly fishing to dance moves and more).

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    1. Hello John:- I don't know if you had a chance to read the conversation between Emperor and me that went up yesterday, but that contains my own concerns about making sense about the situation at Marvel today. It's easy to miss new comments, as they can appear all over the place, but I think that's the best summary I can offer of my own take on these issues;

      http://toobusythinkingboutcomics.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/on-x-treme-x-men-1-first-time-no-1.html?showComment=1343971675893#c5071363885057924679

      The links in that piece may be of interest if you've not come across them before.

      Of course, if you had seen that stuff, my apologies for wasting your time.

      There are of course some very good and some rather competent books at Marvel at the moment too. Journey Into Mystery, the Greg Land-less Uncanny X-Men and so on. This of course only makes the situation more confusing, but also more hopeful.

      From what we're told, the Avengers movie was an incredible bonanza, but Marvel's copyrights and the merchandise they enable is incredibly profitable. The comics themselves are a minor part of the financial picture. And the thing is, no matter what we do or don't make of these films and comics, they are generating profit. I too miss the days when there seemed a greater measure of willingness to experiment, but as the links in the above seem to indicate, there are reasons for why that's unlikely to happen again.

      I do agree with your disappointment, and yet, I take my compensation from the fact that both Marvel and DC are still producing a number of good books - more than existed for most of the 90s, for example - and the fact that the publishers beyond the Big Two are providing so many interesting and enjoyable comics too.

      One day there'll be a big thick expose about these years in the comics industry. As I said in my replies to Emperor, I worry that the situation at the moment might be far more complex and mysterious than at first appears.

      By which I mean, I too would like to see a Marvel that's the equal of the company's great periods; 60-8, 74-7, 00-04. But if not, as you suggest with reference to Manga, there's a great many fine books out there to enjoy :)

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  11. Colin, my comment was kind of a reaction to your exchange with Emperor. I felt I needed to evoke Disney because I feel it's their hands in the pie that are giving some of the Marvel books the uneven and slap-dashed direction you (and others) were expressing.

    Greg Pak is a good writer, the editors at Marvel do give a damn, and yes, there are a few great comics being made. I supppose I'm more readily to place the blame at Disney's doorsteps than at Marvel's. I think it's Disney that's more risk-adverse, and less willing to expirament with "what sticks on the walls",and is the root of the back room dealings (re-writes and what not), and that's the main problem. That's my opinion, and my opinion alone...if any Disney lawyers are checking Mr.Smith's blog here...It's me, not him.

    When DC was picked up by Warner Brothers, the bleed-over of creative teams seemed(from the outside looking in)to compliment each other (Batman the Animated Series, for instance). But the relationship beteen Marvel and Disney doesn't seem to be as seamless. Disney is stable. Marvel is kenetic. It's gonna take awhile to get this marriage to run smoothly.

    Plus, how can the Marvel comics be in economic turmoil, if the merchandise sells ba-zillions of dollars worldwide? Again, my opinion is: The comics are a small part of the financial picture, but realistically, Disney is now the gate keeper and (I'm guessing) they decide to a large extent where that money eventually ends up. Do you want better comics or a new super-expensive virtual interactive ride at Disney World?

    Colin, if Disney starts sending you scary legal notices, I'll understand if you have to 'ban' me from the comments section.

    I stand by my opinions, and await to see what Marvel's 'reset' series looks like this fall. As a die-hard comics fan, I'm hoping for the best, but we'll just have to see. Thank you for your time and consideration. Peace to you and yours.

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    1. Hello John:- I understand your concerns about Disney, and yet there's not been a whisper in the fan press, or indeed any other press, about the Corporation imposing their will on Marvel. That doesn't mean that such isn't there; the truth is that we know remarkably little about how the Big Two work on the micro or the macro level. Furthermore, I'm not sure that the tendencies we're discussing stem from the DisneY takeover in 2009. There's been an intensification of the crossover mentality, but it was well in place before Disney arrived.

      So I guess we're waiting for a big juicy kiss'n'tell memoir to appear.

      I'm looking forward to the Marvel Now series. I suspect that it might produce better comics than the mass of New 52 books, which usually appeared - and still appear - thin and rushed. The likes of Journey Into Mystery and even the recently released Hawkeye seem to point to a brighter future, although I will concede, the number of franchise and even-franchise books doesn't bode well.

      But, hope springing eternal and accepting the fact that there's so many good comics on the stands from elsewhere, there's nothing to loose feeling a touch of optimism for Marvel's future. I rarely buy many of the company's books on a regular basis anyway, so things can hardly get worse for me. At the moment, I buy Hawkeye, JIM and Daredevil. It'll only take 1 more good comic a month and things have turned for the better for me :)

      I hope the day is treating you and your folks kindly :)

      There's

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    2. All of the rumours emerging from inside Marvel/Disney suggest that the Mouse is not interfering with Marvel, and that they have their own problems. The interesting thing is that everyone points to Isaac Perlmutter as the source of all the penny-pinching and squeezes that Marvel is trying to work around/through (they have all the other right ingredients as far as talent and characters go). In fact, the result of Disney's problems is that Perlmutter seems to be gaining more influence in the rest of Disney (thanks to a share deal he is the largest shareholder there since Steve Jobs died). My gut feeling is that we'd be better off if Disney did get more involved with Marvel, as WB's synergy with DC has helped open the pursestrings (which has led to the New 52, which I do think is a move forward, even if it could have been better). Instead this risk-averse culture might spread into the wider company.

      How this all plays out will be worth watching, although (as Colin has said) it might be a long time before we get a decent answer. If we ever do.

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    3. Hello Emperor:- Crikey, I wish I'd explained myself as clearly as you did there. Thank you.

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